My Jumbo quail roo is injured on his backside, kind of to his left.

[Kiki]

Well, I appreciate how much you care....

I watch people trying to save their dying chicken's life on the daily because it was overfed treats.

We don't start out knowing how important diet is for our birds but we learn. One way or another.

 

[DvorahChanah]

I watch people trying to save their dying chicken's life on the daily because it was overfed treats.

We don't start out knowing how important diet is for our birds but we learn. One way or another.

I get it. It's just that you're not defining what a "treat" is and why it's a treat. Is a treat non-commercial food?? Greens? Larva? Which larva? Worms?

I found the thread: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/how-much-feed.1465441/#post-24410113 where there was speculation to feed 1 tbsp per bird but it wasn't really a recommendation. Just a guess...I took it more seriously than I should have done. Quote: "Mealworms are very fatty as well. They should have no more than a tablespoon a day I believe." My clue should have been "I believe...."

I haven't found many really great books on quail raising/farming. There are some good YouTube videos but they're so divergent in their views, so I haven't sorted all that out yet. Being a permaculture/regenerative gardener for decades, who prefers to treat animals as well as possible until I eat them, should I choose to do so, I am skeptical of suggestions from CAFO style systems. I bought a book on homestead scale livestock from Polyface Micro/Joe Salatin and was disappointed that he doesn't cover quail.

 

[Kiki]

I get it. It's just that you're not defining what a "treat" is and why it's a treat. Is a treat non-commercial food??

I found the thread: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/how-much-feed.1465441/#post-24410113 where there was speculation to feed 1 tbsp per bird but it wasn't really a recommendation. Just a guess...I took it more seriously than I should have done.

A treat is any and every thing besides the commercially made balanced crumbled feed.
If quail crumble feed isn't available then a chicken crumbled feed.

 

[Kiki]

I get it. It's just that you're not defining what a "treat" is and why it's a treat. Is a treat non-commercial food??

I found the thread: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/how-much-feed.1465441/#post-24410113 where there was speculation to feed 1 tbsp per bird but it wasn't really a recommendation. Just a guess...I took it more seriously than I should have done.

Ask those two if they still have healthy quail running around and for how long they keep them.


It's extremely hard to know what is good information and what is not on the internet.
Stick around and you will get the hang of things around here.

 

[DvorahChanah]

A treat is any and every thing besides the commercially made balanced crumbled feed.
If quail crumble feed isn't available then a chicken crumbled feed.

What style of quail raising system do you use? I watched a video from MyShire Farms says quail don't like change. Feed the same thing every day. He recommends as few changes as possible.

 

[Kiki]

Can you see this....LOOK AT THE TABS ON THE BOTTOM...Specifically the MEAT & GAME FEEDS tab.
Scroll over to the right and look for the ones LABELED QUAIL.
Compare some of those to what you currently feed.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...j3Bt5CUQfX1PlTEhg799sDT-qM/edit#gid=784735817

 

[DvorahChanah]

Ask those two if they still have healthy quail running around and for how long they keep them.


It's extremely hard to know what is good information and what is not on the internet.
Stick around and you will get the hang of things around here.

"It's extremely hard to know what is good information and what is not on the internet."
True. True with any form of information, whether books, videos, the internet, journals. It does take time. I realize now he was only speculating, not making recommendations.

 

[Kiki]

What style of quail raising system do you use? I watched a video from MyShire Farms says quail don't like change. Feed the same thing every day. He recommends as few changes as possible.

Quail do not like changes. I don't mix my quail up at all. No integration. I hatch regularly and keep hatch mates together from day one on. I only keep small groups 1 male per 5 or 6 females.
I have videos of my set ups here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMb1Uplve6sorA_vs4HLFwQ

 

[DvorahChanah]

Can you see this....LOOK AT THE TABS ON THE BOTTOM...Specifically the MEAT & GAME FEEDS tab.
Scroll over to the right and look for the ones LABELED QUAIL.
Compare some of those to what you currently feed.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...j3Bt5CUQfX1PlTEhg799sDT-qM/edit#gid=784735817

I live overseas. Nutritional information is not listed on the game bird feed available to me. I'm not sure how this spreadsheet can help me.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

OK, understand I have Chickens and Ducks. Most of my poultry nutrition research is regarding chickens (It's what I primarily raise, and frankly, there's more research on chickens than other fowl - feeding chickens is better studied than any other creature on the planet, even us human-types). I know a bit about ducks specifically related to Niacin needs, and dietary contributors to the development of "angel wing", particularly in very young birds. Also, they generally are recomendaed about 1% higher total fat intake than chickens. I know a bit about quail - mostly that their recommended protein levels are generally higher than the typical chicken or duck at any equivalent age category, but I couldn't (off the top of my head) tell you how their desired AA profile varies from the typical chicken's - though I couldprobably find it fast, and then explain why, based on what I understand already about various AAs.

I'm also pretty good at basic math.

So, with those undestandings, here goes. [Warning, broad generalizations here]

A "treat" is anything which is not a nutritionally complete and balanced feed. "Treats" are not inherently good or bad. There is a "thumb rule" that gets thrown around BYC a lot, that "treats" (of whatever sort) should not exceed 10% of the total chicken diet, BY WEIGHT, daily. There's another "thumb rule" that treats should be varied, so the birds don't get substantially "the same" treat each day. Both thumb rules exist to reduce the chances of dietary imbalance. And like all thumb rules, they are imperfect fits, a guide, not a guaranteed calculation. The more nutritionally dense a "treat" (or nutritionally empty), the greater the chance that 10% by weight will still result in potential imbalance.

Dried earthworms, mealworms, BSFL (black soldier fly larvae), "super grubs", BOSS (Black Oil Sunflower Seeds) and similar products are all nutritionally dense sources of protein, yes, but also fat.

Now, numbers. (Sorry)

Typically, live earthworms are given nutrtional values around 60% water, 20% protein, 13-14% fat, 6-7% "everything else". A live earthworm weighs about 1/4 g, on average.

Dried, with most of the moisture removed, they become much more nutritionally dense sources. Numbers are often given as 5%+/- water, 45% protein +/- (and its a complete protein, which is good), 28% fat+/-, and 20%+/- "everything else". Weight closer to 1/8 g.

and here is what MSU says about feeding quail. Note the lack of a number for fat, specifically. More math (trust me on this, I built a calculator).

Their BYQ "starter" is around 3.2% fat. The Finisher about 3.4% fat. The flight Starter is about 2.8% fat, finisher about 3.8% fat. Layer? 3.2% fat. For Coturnix, their recipes calculate around 3% fat starter, 3.4% finisher, 3.2% breeder. That seems a good target range, and not far off typical recommends for chickens (they are usually 3.5%+/- with exceptions for Cx).

That's our baseline. I'm goign to pick this up in the next post.