My necropsy confirms AE

[DDRanch]

I am so sorry to hear this. Thank you for sharing this with us.
Anne

 

[barefoot]

I spoke with the MO Dept. of Agriculture today about my sick chick situation. They said there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO CULL THE HEALTHY CHICKS. They said if they seem healthy, just raise them and no harm done. I am so relieved and this seems in line with what most people are hearing from their state ag depts. too.

As for my sick chicks, they will pick up my sickies this week and are interested to do necropsies on them. They said this is not a disease that they see very often in Missouri. Of course, they said that while it does sound like AE, they won't be sure until they have done the necropsies.

So, I'm sadly going to send my poor little "Carrot" away with them, along with several other sick chicks. It will be very sad to see them go, but at least they'll be sacrificed in the name of science. Carrot will be the hardest, because we have hand nursed her through this. She's the only one who has lost complete use of her legs. I have built a little harness system in a special little box where she hangs, with her feet barely touching the ground. She has access to food and water there and seems quite happy, although probably lonely. So, I put her in with the other sick chicks a few times every day, but I have to keep close watch the whole time so they don't crush her in their own awkward walking/stumbling attempts. She is so FRUSTRATED that she can't walk, she pushes and rocks when I put her on solid ground, but just can't get her legs under her. I even went so far as to buy a little toy truck and I removed the axles and wheels and sewed a little harness jumper (yes, chicken clothes!) out of vet wrap and was going to try to see if she could relearn to walk in a 'chicken walker' like babies use. But alas, I don't think there's much hope and since I've decided to send her off to the ag department, I guess I won't get to see if that works. I'm quite sure it would have been a hopeless endeavor anyway. Sniff, sniff.

That's my saga. Sorry to all of you out there who have your own baby chicken sagas too.

 

[turnerstar31]

barefoot I am so sorry about your little carrot.

that really tugged at the strings. I hope that you can get a carrot the second. Just think she will help other chicks that could be sick.

 

[red-hen]

I'm so very sorry for all of you who are experiencing this. *great big hugs*

I'm relieved that I joined this forum though, or I wouldn't be aware of this problem. I have been planning for my future chickies (months away but still an issue) and would NEVER have known if you all weren't talking about this.

Going slightly off topic here - someone mentioned that MM does drop shipping from other hatcheries - does anyone know from which other hatcheries? My orders will probably be from Cackle in Missouri, and Meyer in Ohio - how can I know if they're affected by this issue?

Thanks for any thoughts. Again, my very sincere sympathies. I'd be so heartbroken and sick over it if it was me in your shoes.

PS: Thank you to all of you who are going the extra mile to get your birds tested - your efforts are saving many future problems from developing!

 

[GwenFarms]

This is only going on in the one hatchery. The hatcheries you are mentioning are in altogether different states. I ordered from Cackle this year and have beautiful, healthy chicks.

 

[red-hen]

Thanks for your quick reply. I'm relieved at that news.



Just FYI - I was just on MM's web site and noticed that each of these breeds list "males only" for ordering currently. Does this have anything to do with what is happening?

Barred Rocks
Partridge Rocks
Buff Rocks
Dark Cornish
White Giants
Black Giants

(Those are the only breeds I clicked on - don't know if more are male only)

 

[ruth]

If everyone is allowed an opinion - here is my humble opinion - based on the following articles, it is my opinion that those who choose to keep their sick chicks isolated, warm and well cared for can expect some to recover and those that recover will be immune to this "naturally occuring virus" that exists world-wide and normally only affects chicks less than 6 weeks old because after that they have developed their own immunities. Again this is my opinion, offered solely as help to those trying to make a very difficult decision. I have never told anyone NOT to report this if they live in a state that says they must report the outbreak. I am only trying to post information for those trying to make a decision to cull or not (especially if their AG Dept. puts the decision back on them).

****************

C853 - AVIAN ENCEPHALOMYELITIS

Nature of the disease

Avian encephalomyelitis (AE) is a viral disease of young chickens caused by a virus from the Hepatovirus family and characterised by central nervous system signs (Epidemic Tremors).

Susceptible species
AE occurs naturally in chickens, turkeys, pheasants and Japanese quail.

Distribution
AE has been reported from virtually all developed countries, including New Zealand, Australia, USA and New Caledonia.

Clinical signs
Chickens of all ages are susceptible, but clinical signs of encephalitis only develop in those younger than four weeks. The disease is similar in turkeys and chickens. Under field conditions disease is most common in the 1–2 week age group. Following initial dull expression of the eyes, the following signs are seen:

- progressive ataxia with the chick losing control of legs, sitting on its haunches and falling onto its side;

- tremor of the head and neck.

Ataxia progresses to paralysis and death results from inability to feed or drink, or through being trampled.

Some birds recover, and others may survive with persistent clinical signs.

*****************


From article in "The Poultry Guide":

Most prevalent in chickens 1 to 6 weeks of age. Susceptible chickens more than 5 weeks old will develop antibodies to AE, but do not show clinical signs at the time of infection.

Chickens of all ages are susceptible, but clinical signs of encephalitis only develop in those younger than four weeks.

Prove good nursing during outbreaks will help with mortality. Lifetime immunity is acquired through vaccination or recovery from a natural outbreaks.

*****************************
From Univ. of Fla. IFAS Extension site:

Clinical signs: Signs commonly appear during the first week of life and between the second and third weeks.

Transmission: The virus can be transmitted through the egg from infected hen to chick, accounting for disease during the first week of life. The disease can also be spread through a flock by direct contact of susceptible hatchlings with infected birds, accounting for the disease at 2-3 weeks of age. Recovered birds are immune and do not spread the virus.

******************************
Thank you for allowing a different opinion - little fuzzy butt lives literally depend upon it.

 

[GwenFarms]

Quote:
Its probably because right now is the busy season and they are selling out of pullets, but its possible that its related to the problems. There just isn't much info coming out of mmh about this.

 

[RedTailRanch]

In response to what Red Hen wrote, I have been wondering the same thing. Also, when I got my MM order on 3/3/08, they shorted me several chicks. They attached a note that said they "did not have as good a hatch as we had expected". They also included "extra" of one breed I did order...the Anconas. Oddly enough NONE of my Anconas have shown any symptoms at all! They are the strongest and healthiest and biggest! The only other chicks that have not shown signs are the Black Minorcas. ALL my other chicks are symptomatic (12 total).

I do find it interesting.

 

[ruth]

Quote:
That's the beauty of immunity. The well chicks came from mothers who had been vaccinated and passed that immunity onto their chicks. So even though the chicks were placed in the same brooder with sick and dying chicks - they did not get the virus because they are immune.

That's the main advantage of letting those that are sick survive because they have beaten the virus and will pass that natural immunity onto their chicks. Natural immuity, based on all the papers I read, is better at fighting this virus than immunization because the immunization only works in a certain percentage of cases - high percentage but there are those it doesn't work on - just like human vaccines - most work on most people but some don't. Some people, like me, have never been sick or gotten a cold or flu in their life (and have never taken the vaccine) and because I breast fed my last child for 5 weeks, he has my immunities and has also never been sick a day in his entire life including infancy. You can throw us in a room full of sick people with the flu and we won't catch it. Not saying something won't come along that will wipe us out - just hasn't yet but if people keep taking antibiotics the way they do the viruses only get stronger. That's why it's important to fight a virus naturally not try and kill it out.

I also want to clarify, that based on all my readings, the sick chicks who recover are NOT and I repeat NOT carriers all the days of their life passing this virus onto their eggs - just the opposite - they pass their natural immunity onto their eggs/chicks. Based on everything I've read the natural immunity is for life whereas the vaccine which may or may not work may or may not need to be readministered a few years later.

I do want to caution though that the virus can stick around in feces for up to a month so it is important to not get any new baby chicks in exposed area nor any adult egg laying hens if you are planning on hatching or selling for hatch the eggs - eating the eggs is o.k.. You can immunize the hens and they will be fine for hatching eggs after the waiting period.

So to all, this is not a death sentence for your whole flock and your farm for years to come.