My Science Teacher said something I do not particularly agree with....

[dlhunicorn]

...I can easily see where assumptions where made in the "course" of the conversation...somebody probably mentioned the colored chcks that are sold at easter and (probably) asked how this was possible (and seeing how a "white" type bird is used for "making" these chicks and the process is well documented and explained in the teachers material at the Univ. of Illinois site (the info corresponds to the explanation given by the teacher>see my first post with these links) ... the conversation then probably stopped I assume or else further questions would have been asked (and then answered) such as "do they stay that color and if not why is the coloration not permanent?" ...etc etc.

 

[Scrambled Egg]

Dino, sounds like you really have some great info. here on the actual process from egg development to chick hatching and all genetics traits that influence the coloring too. Being the parent of an extremely outspoken 17 year old teenaged boy, I would, however, advise you to be very careful about how you correct your teacher. My son still hasn't learned this lesson and keeps right on trying to make opposite points against opinionated teachers in front of the class. This effort never works and I can prove that from the remarks, and sometimes the grades, on his report cards.

I believe it is easier for a person to accept criticism in private and for a teacher it would offer a secondary learning opportunity to a student if he were able to admit that he was wrong, without loosing control of the entire class. Dino, maybe you should take the info and meet with your teacher before or after school and not tell him thta he is wrong, but show him what you have and tell him that you have some different information than what he presented. Let him back up and re-group and hopefully he will find a way to keep his position of control with that class and offer the correct info. If, of course, he doesn't pass on the right info. then you are left with little choice but to go higher and by that I would go to your counselor and tell him or her and let them pass it forward.

Don't meant to be so lengthy, but my son never quite gets this lesson and thinks that adults want to be corrected by "kids" and that they don't mind loosing "face" and "control" in front of 29 other teenagers --well, they do and they often retaliate as a result of the humiliation so I don't think you should do that, as someone else said, be tactful and be smart and let him think it is his idea to present the "different" information. Good luck, Darlene

 

[FutureChickenMan]

Quote:
Uhm, yeah…. As mentioned before, egg yolk contains Xanthophyll which is what makes it yellow, the Xanthophyll is passed on to chicks giving their skin shanks etc a yellow color, a color that they can not make on their own and must get from the food they eat.
I have already sited a couple sources to back this statement up.

To which I do not disagree. Since an embryo cannot poop where else would the waste product go?

Quote:
The data does not back up this claim. Just because one chick becomes yellow from eating a substance, does not mean that all chicks will be yellow…

Exactly

However, making a statement that “the reason chicks are yellow, is because the yolk is yellow” does not exclude chicks that are not yellow from remaining that way, even if they do consume the same food; an attempt to make this mutually exclusive is an invalid argument. Again I have sited sources that explain this further in my previous posts.

To which I agree, but the way the instructors comments were repeated to us, it appears that was what he was saying. It's like saying all fords are cars therefore all cars are fords.

Quote:
As stated before, not all coloration is a result of pigments created by an organism, many pigments are acquired through diet; again, I have already sited sources to back this statement up.

And I said the same thing, the coloring absorbed through the yolk during digestion that comes out on the fluff is a waste by product.


Quote:
Misleading yes, but not inaccurate. As I stated previously, “the statement made by the teacher, taken at face value, is accurate, if not complete” and “We would need to know the exact context of his statement in order to make a determination on his state of confusion.”

Quote:
Again, if you read the sources I sited previously you would have learned that chickens derive their yellow color from their diet and do not produce the compounds used for the yellow pigmentation.
Therefore, it is true that a chicken must have the right set of genes for the yellow pigment of their food to have a visual effect on their coloration; it is not true that the genes passed on from their parents direct them to produce a substance that causes any yellow pigmentation.

So if I understand what you are saying correctly, you are asserting that NONE of the yellow pigmentation of chicks fluff, skin, shanks etc is a genetic coloration from their parent. I find that very hard to believe. The yolk pigment as a contributing factor yes, but deciding factor? Nah, not buying it.

Quote:
Now you’re getting it! The amount of Xanthophyll present in the food that the hen eats will determine the amount of yellow pigmentation within the yolk of the egg. Ultimately the pigmentation of the egg will be consumed by the chick which will alter the chick’s pigmentation.

Quote:
I would counter by saying, knowing the context of the speaker is important in that, we need to know if he is making the statement that chick down is effected by the pigmentation contained in the yolk, or did he mean that the chicks skin, shanks, fat, beak are affected by this; the latter being correct while the former being incorrect.

I took each point made in the original post and found information that was valid to each point, with the intent to discover the truth about the statement.
I separated ideas that were not specifically dependent on each other.
I have sited sources that back up any statements I have made, and have tried not to make any assumptions about things for which information was not provided.
I do enjoy a good debate, and as, this is a topic for which most of my experience is all of about 48 hours, I welcome any valid rebuttal.
Please site your sources

So, genetically speaking, if you take two embryos from the same parents, dye one yolk and leave the other alone, you will have two different colors in appearance but one color genetically.

The way the information was passed on to us, I interepreted it as the instructor was trying to imply that the dying of the yolk creates a genetic change in the embryo. This is not true.

"Anyways, my teacher said that the reason chicksare yellow, is because the yolk is yellow. "

This statement is only partially correct; all chicks are not all yellow, some are all yellow some chicks have some yellow. Going back to my previous comment that all fords are cars therefore all cars are fords. The statement lacks clarity leading the listern down the wrong path to the conclusion.

"And that if scientist injects dye with a needle into the yolk, the chicks hatch out different colors. "

Again, partially correct. You are seeing the waste by product in their fluff, however if the color of the fluff is already darker than the dye used, only the areas (if any) of fluff that are lighter than the dye used will be will be noticably altered. A chick that is predetermined to hatch out black is not going to have a noticable difference in color by dying the yolk blue prior to hatching.

Last of all, if the instructor had done an adequate job of explaining the context and information he was trying to pass on, dino wouldn't be here asking about it would she.

Sources: 2 years of anatomy / biology / common sense.

 

[Chellester]

My MIL's free range chickens lay eggs with bright orange yolks.

I have yet to see a bright orange chick in any of the offspring.

 

[FutureChickenMan]

Quote:
right because the concentration of colorant isn't high enough. which brings up the question, just how much red #5 do they have to put in the yolk to get a pink chick?

These chicks must not have had very good yolks.

 

[Sharisr32]

I must point out this was one powerful Teacher right or wrong 9 pages at this point -He has people reading and talking - and no one even knows what was really said.

I am jealous I wish 5 minutes in one of my allied health classes could get this many adults involved and debating.
Pretty impressive

 

[skeeter9]

Dinos - Good for you for using your own brain in your science class!!! One of the most important things you should learn in school is how to think critically!!!! It was also good thinking on your part to bring the question here for clarification - You've gotten lots of good information.

Keep up the good work!!!

Lori
(CPA of 15 years, turned teacher because I CAN and I choose to teach and make a difference!!!)

 

[BlueMoon]

This has been the most fascinating and often most hysterical thread I have yet to read. I love it. Thanks for the biology, philosophy, guidance, psychology and humor.

I wonder if you could print out the thread and just be prepared to show it to your teachers superiors, your parents, possibly even to him - if you give it to him, day before a long holiday. Good luck Dino!

 

[DuckLady]

Why don't you email your teacher a link to this thread, Dino?
You have been nothing but respectful toward your teacher here. Maybe he would appreciate and enjoy the thread as well as your sensitivity about finding a way to communicate your knowledge to him.

 

[PurpleChicken]

Quote:
That's the best idea so far. Let him get mad at guys like me. Just edit the post
where you answered my question about him being arrogant. He may not like that.
If we all play nice he can even join in.