Mycoplasma and management - Advice, experience please!

[ChickenLoverz123]

I think there are a couple symptoms in your flock that don't match up with mycoplasma. Mainly the swollen eyes and scabby combs. Swollen eyes and lesions on combs could be fowl pox. Fowl pox is a virus spread by mosquitos (not sure of your location/if mosquitos are an issue this time of year for you), but it typically clears up on its own.

Another possibility with the swollen eyes is coryza, which often presents with eyes swollen shut and thick mucus draining from the nares. This is caused by bacteria, is often chronic (birds are carriers for life), but can't be passed through the eggs like mycoplasma. Treatment involves antibiotics. Antibiotics are something I'm not personally willing to give to my flock since we eat their eggs, and I don't think food and antibiotics should mingle. I think some people do an egg withdrawal for antibiotics, and resume eating them once the antibiotics are no longer in the system, but that assumes that 100% of the harmful bacteria have been killed and are not resistant to antibiotics, which may not be the case if the antibiotics were not administered properly. On an organic farm, once an animal receives antibiotics it can no longer be used for organic food products and can only be sold as conventional. And many conventional meat products are eschewing antibiotics these days, too. It's just not something I'm willing to do for a flock that provides me with food.

My decision making process in your case would probably be dependent on diagnosis and exactly how rare the breeds are. I think there is a lot of misinformation about "rare" breeds because large hatcheries want to make a buck and charge more for more desirable birds, and scarcity is an effective marketing tactic. Have you checked your breeds against the livestock conservancy breed list? If they aren't listed under critical or threatened, I probably wouldn't take their rarity into consideration if my flock's health and safety were on the line. Even so, chronic, infectious illness may be grounds for culling even rarer breeds. I'd send in samples if I weren't able to rule out infectious bacterial disease. If I could confidently say it's fowl pox, I probably wouldn't do anything except close the flock until everyone is asymptomatic.

As for my flock, nobody is currently symptomatic, but I am likely going to send in some samples in the spring (too stressful to do it now for both me and the birds; it's cold!) to see if they are carriers for mycoplasma (I'm not worried about coryza, my flock doesn't have the right symptoms for it). Then I'll make a decision based on the results and what my state recommends. If even one bird in my flock tests positive, that means I can pretty much assume they all have it. I think the quickest way to be done with it is to cull the entire flock (if even one tests positive, they likely all have it or will get it at some point), but that's also heartbreaking AND a significant investment loss. If my state says mycoplasma isn't a big deal then I might not do anything about it, even though that may be seen as controversial on this website. If my birds are going to get it anyway (via wild birds, 4H/fairs, etc.) then why make such a fuss about it? Hence my big question up top: how realistic is it to keep a flock mycoplasma free?

I was hoping someone would be able to speak from experience about how realistic it is, but either nobody has an opinion or my thread got buried lol.

Okay, well nothing is coming out of their noses, most of them act completely normal except for scabs on their combs all varying in size, and a few bubbles/snot on the corner of their eye. Only one out of them all is the one that can’t breath out of it’s nose. They aren’t together with my main flock and definitely won’t be till they get better or tested. How do you test them for diseases? And how expensive would it be to test about 10-15 birds? Would I need to test my entire flock? They aren’t in direct contact with each other but tha main flock chickens can come up really close to their pen.

 

[Perris]

I'll flag this thread up to some people who know a lot about a lot of diseases, and see if any of them can help you. @azygous @dawg53 @Eggcessive or @Wyorp Rock , can you please advise the op?

 

[gmjarvi]

Okay, well nothing is coming out of their noses, most of them act completely normal except for scabs on their combs all varying in size, and a few bubbles/snot on the corner of their eye. Only one out of them all is the one that can’t breath out of it’s nose. They aren’t together with my main flock and definitely won’t be till they get better or tested. How do you test them for diseases? And how expensive would it be to test about 10-15 birds? Would I need to test my entire flock? They aren’t in direct contact with each other but tha main flock chickens can come up really close to their pen.

I would check your state agricultural/veterinary extension for testing info. In Michigan you can get a couple different tests done for Mycoplasma - one costs $6/bird and the other costs $25 not including overnight shipping. One is a serum test, so I'd have to collect blood and separate out the serum. The other can be done with swabs, which is easier. Sometimes there are "volume" discounts if you test over a certain number of birds. Fowl pox is typically self diagnosable. If you type in "coryza" in our state lab's catalog, no results turn up so it must be more specific, but I dont know the name of the bacteria that causes coryza.

If you wear the same clothing or shoes between the pens, or if your main flock approaches the sick flock -even if they are separated by wire - they can transmit disease to and from each other. I'd recommend that you keep the flocks well away from each other and make sure you have special shoes that you only wear to the sick flock's pen if you're really worried about it. Different clothes would be ideal, too, but it's certainly not as practical. Another reason I've been wondering how realistic it is to keep a flock mycoplasma free lol. These diseases are spread really easily! I've heard of people having special shoes that they only wear to the feed store because they are THAT concerned about bringing disease home to their flock (if someone wears boots with infected poop/bedding stuck to the bottom, and you step where they step, that's a potential transfer point).

 

[gmjarvi]

I'll flag this thread up to some people who know a lot about a lot of diseases, and see if any of them can help you. @azygous @dawg53 @Eggcessive or @Wyorp Rock , can you please advise the op?

Thank you! For an update, my flock is now asymptomatic and still no deaths. My theory is that when the weather changes again in the spring there will be a flare up. I plan on doing some testing in the spring, but am still left wondering how realistic a mycoplasma free flock is, and still curious about associated biosecurity ethics.

another thought: We free range and I'm not willing to give that up...it seems to me mycoplasma could spread to a flock in a covered run via wild bird droppings anyway.

 

[dawg53]

Thank you! For an update, my flock is now asymptomatic and still no deaths. My theory is that when the weather changes again in the spring there will be a flare up. I plan on doing some testing in the spring, but am still left wondering how realistic a mycoplasma free flock is, and still curious about associated biosecurity ethics.

another thought: We free range and I'm not willing to give that up...it seems to me mycoplasma could spread to a flock in a covered run via wild bird droppings anyway.

I'm a firm believer in biosecurity. I've never had to deal with ANY type of respiratory disease in any of my flocks over the years. Some of the time my birds have free ranged. My current flock stays penned up. There was one instance that I thought I was dealing with MG or IB years ago and it turned out to be a mold issue inside one of the coops. It got taken care of right away and no more issues with my birds.

I have "chicken clothes and shoes" that I wear in and around the pens, so that nothing undesirable is introduced into my flock.
There is only one trustworthy breeder that I have dealt with over the years, and she is a BYC member. I have seen the breeders set-up in person.
I also purchase chicks from reputable hatcheries, mainly Ideal and Meyer hatcheries and never had any issues. I have also purchased chicks at a local feed store as soon as they came in, and they were from Ideal hatchery. I've never had a problem with them neither.

There are plenty of folks out there and many BYC members who have respiratory disease free flocks.
Some folks unknowingly jump right into owning chickens without doing some research and end up with sick birds, or they dont quarantine birds away from existing flocks for at least 4-6 weeks. Some breeders arnt trustworthy, some knowingly and/or unknowingly sell diseased birds. It's all about the money to some of them.

A dead giveaway that a bird has Coryza is that there is a foul odor around the head area. Birds with Coryza can also have MG at the same time. The same is true with other respiratory diseases such as IB and ILT which are virus. There are different strains of MG, some mild, some severe and yes, MG can cause facial swelling like Coryza.
MG doesnt last long in the environment, only 3 days. If in fact your birds have MG, you can depopulate, disinfect everything and repopulate in as little as 2 weeks or sooner if you wish.
Denagard treats MG. An antibiotic such as Baytril in combination with a sulfa drug such as sulfadimethoxine or SMZ-TMP will treat Coryza. An antibiotic alone will not treat Coryza.
Antibiotics are ineffective against IB and ILT since they are virus.

I recommend that you get your sickest bird sent off to be tested. That way you'll know for sure that you're dealing with MG, and not a combination of diseases such as MG and IB. If there were 2 or more diseases floating around in your flock, it would be a longer wait time before repopulating.

 

[gmjarvi]

I'm a firm believer in biosecurity. I've never had to deal with ANY type of respiratory disease in any of my flocks over the years. Some of the time my birds have free ranged. My current flock stays penned up. There was one instance that I thought I was dealing with MG or IB years ago and it turned out to be a mold issue inside one of the coops. It got taken care of right away and no more issues with my birds.

I have "chicken clothes and shoes" that I wear in and around the pens, so that nothing undesirable is introduced into my flock.
There is only one trustworthy breeder that I have dealt with over the years, and she is a BYC member. I have seen the breeders set-up in person.
I also purchase chicks from reputable hatcheries, mainly Ideal and Meyer hatcheries and never had any issues. I have also purchased chicks at a local feed store as soon as they came in, and they were from Ideal hatchery. I've never had a problem with them neither.

There are plenty of folks out there and many BYC members who have respiratory disease free flocks.
Some folks unknowingly jump right into owning chickens without doing some research and end up with sick birds, or they dont quarantine birds away from existing flocks for at least 4-6 weeks. Some breeders arnt trustworthy, some knowingly and/or unknowingly sell diseased birds. It's all about the money to some of them.

A dead giveaway that a bird has Coryza is that there is a foul odor around the head area. Birds with Coryza can also have MG at the same time. The same is true with other respiratory diseases such as IB and ILT which are virus. There are different strains of MG, some mild, some severe and yes, MG can cause facial swelling like Coryza.
MG doesnt last long in the environment, only 3 days. If in fact your birds have MG, you can depopulate, disinfect everything and repopulate in as little as 2 weeks or sooner if you wish.
Denagard treats MG. An antibiotic such as Baytril in combination with a sulfa drug such as sulfadimethoxine or SMZ-TMP will treat Coryza. An antibiotic alone will not treat Coryza.
Antibiotics are ineffective against IB and ILT since they are virus.

I recommend that you get your sickest bird sent off to be tested. That way you'll know for sure that you're dealing with MG, and not a combination of diseases such as MG and IB. If there were 2 or more diseases floating around in your flock, it would be a longer wait time before repopulating.

Thank you for your perspective, I really appreciate it! There is so much information out there that it becomes hard to determine the best course of action. I would hugely prefer to have tight biosecurity, but was beginning to wonder if it would even be possible to have a flock that is truly MG free (and free of other respiratory diseases, for that matter) under the tightest biosecurity methods. I can control how other people interact with my flock, but I can't control wild birds!

Do you show birds? I would like my son to do 4H, which would involve showing birds at the county fair...and shows just scream infection to me, even though they have signs about biosecurity everywhere.

Currently none of my birds are symptomatic, and nobody died after this last bout of respiratory illness. If I'm right that there is a chronic issue, I'm guessing they will become symptomatic again when the weather shifts in the spring. If anybody dies between now and then I'll get a necropsy done, but I don't think I'll have that problem. I'll be sending swabs or serum to the lab in the spring, I havent decided which. Flock is closed in the meantime.

 

[ackie]

How realistic is it to keep a flock mycoplasma free? I have read numerous threads and websites about these diseases and there seem to be two camps. Either it is abhorrent and immoral to have an open flock with mycoplasma, or virtually all flocks have mycoplasma and there's nothing you can do about it, especially if you free range or participate in shows/fairs or buy your feed from the store.

I am very interested in this question as well, but I've honestly been afraid to ask it because there are a lot of people here who have very strong feelings about it.

But hypothetically if you had MG/MS and culled everything and cleaned up everything and started fresh with MG/MS-free birds, a wild bird could literally just give it right back to them, so what's the point?

AND since symptoms can never show up, even quarantining a new bird for 30 days doesnt guarantee you arent just bringing it right back in.

Also how do you do biosecurity and free range?

 

[dawg53]

I am very interested in this question as well, but I've honestly been afraid to ask it because there are a lot of people here who have very strong feelings about it.

But hypothetically if you had MG/MS and culled everything and cleaned up everything and started fresh with MG/MS-free birds, a wild bird could literally just give it right back to them, so what's the point?

AND since symptoms can never show up, even quarantining a new bird for 30 days doesnt guarantee you arent just bringing it right back in.

Also how do you do biosecurity and free range?

Not every wild bird that flies onto your property has MG. Does every stray dog or cat that you come across have rabies? Of course not. How long do you think a wild bird would live with MG?

I recently found out that some chicken owners pump their show birds full of antibiotics prior to taking them to a bird show. I never knew that. I dont go to bird shows anyway.

When you acquire new chickens and put them in quarantine, I guarantee you they are stressed. They are stressed from the move, and stressed being put in a cage or unrecognizable pen and surroundings. THAT stress alone will bring out respiratory disease symptoms.

 

[ackie]

Not every wild bird that flies onto your property has MG. Does every stray dog or cat that you come across have rabies? Of course not. How long do you think a wild bird would live with MG?

My point was just that perfect biosecurity is impossible and a negative MG/MS is only valid for the second it's taken because no one can know what happened after that.

 

[ackie]

When you acquire new chickens and put them in quarantine, I guarantee you they are stressed. They are stressed from the move, and stressed being put in a cage or unrecognizable pen and surroundings. THAT stress alone will bring out respiratory disease symptoms.

This is a great point, thank you