Naked Neck/Turken Thread

[DesertChic]

I did manage to do weights & photos of most of my latest hatch. Then I found out that since my phone performed an update, it would no longer allow me to download the photos to my computer for cropping without using data. Well, it was a trying day anyway so why not spend it fighting with a cell phone? Thank goodness my husband was more clear-headed than I've been and figured it all out for me. I'm back in business! So....here's a few photos...with LOTS of buff barring.

Starting with the worst photo, but this little one was very uncooperative. This is the White Rock + Zazzle cross:



Then Sylvester...most definitely a cockerel:


And now a few pullets (I hope):

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

I did manage to do weights & photos of most of my latest hatch. Then I found out that since my phone performed an update, it would no longer allow me to download the photos to my computer for cropping without using data. Well, it was a trying day anyway so why not spend it fighting with a cell phone? Thank goodness my husband was more clear-headed than I've been and figured it all out for me. I'm back in business! So....here's a few photos...with LOTS of buff barring.

Starting with the worst photo, but this little one was very uncooperative. This is the White Rock + Zazzle cross:



Then Sylvester...most definitely a cockerel:


And now a few pullets (I hope):

I am loving your birds!!!

(But I have to ask - for the "posed" looking pics - how many did you have to snap to get those?

)

- Ant Farm

 

[DesertChic]

I am loving your birds!!!

(But I have to ask - for the "posed" looking pics - how many did you have to snap to get those?

)

- Ant Farm

Actually, most of them only required a single shot. The maximum for a single chick today was four shots to get a usable one. The really hard part was removing the small rubberbands on their legs and replacing them with zip ties. They were NOT into that process.

One more chick...my little "warrior girl", Michonne. She's one of the friendliest, hardiest and most courageous:

Full war paint on one side of her face, and....


...barely a hint on the other side.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

Quote:
@Kev , am I correct that those markings indicate Extended black? A couple of my Marans x Goodwin chicks have it, along with cream underbellies of varying sizes. Snape had it when he was a chick, and one of the dark girls did as well (I can't work out whether it was Trinity or Switch, my data got scrambled somehow - I think Switch?).

From the chick down thread on that other forum (sorry, forget who posted this one):

"Chick hatch down:

E - Extended black
The down is black on the dorsal and lateral surfaces,
whilst the ventral surfaces and the wing tips are cream-colored or
white. Homozygous chicks often have a small white dot on each side of
the lower foreface.

ER - Birchen
The down resembles that of E, although the non-black area on
the ventral surfaces may be reduced in some cases. The head may be brownish.

eWh – Wheaten
The down of wheaten is essentially clear cream in color,
although small dorsal head spots are common. An occasional chick,
usually female, may show a faint, broken trace of the dark lateral
back stripes.

e+ - Duckwing
The wild type down pattern consists of a dark brown median dorsal
stripe that continues onto the dorsal surface of the head. On
either side of the back are narrower, dark brown, lateral stripes
separated from the median stripe by two yellowish-white stripes.
The ground color is of a lighter tan shade, being lightest on the
ventral surfaces.

eb – Brown
The brown chick has the darker brown pigment more evenly distributed
over the dorsal surfaces and the head. Some reduced evidence of the
yellowish-white stripe is often_ evident. There is no sharp break in
the head Color as in the e+ chick, although some lighter shading
of brown may be evident in front of the eyes and/or along the front
line of the comb.

Note: These descriptions are for the genes in the absence of other colour-changing gene, many of which alter the above colour description quite dramatically."

- Ant Farm

 

[Kev]

you asked one of the more difficult questions lol I am a little confused on this subject myself. As far as I understand.. there is a fair amount of overlap between E and ER chick down. Some believe the white dot by beak is a sign of E and a lot of E do look like Michonne. Notice, the dot is almost not present on one side.. shows how variable it can be.

Other questions.. what does an E/ER chick look like? Adult plumagewise, E is dominant over ER but best not to rush thinking the same would apply to chick down. There have been several surprises where a line assumed to be pure E or ER only to sequence out to be either the other or a mixture of both.

one sign I consider to be reliable is the brown or white brushed face on black chick is ER. could not find a better pic with quick googling so am cheating by showing a sebright(100% guaranteed pure ER) chick.. ignore the feathering, look at the mask if you see it, classic ER mask. Of course most ER don;t have it, don't ask me why:

http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGP/Sebr/GSebrightChix.JPEG

As for your cross chicks, I suspect most Marans are E or E/ER mixes. Because I had black coppers, they consistently kept throwing chicks and adults that looked like examples of what E are supposed to look like without modifiers. "not enough copper"- hens with either no copper or just a minimum on the lower back hackle, roosters having it only on neck and back, no 'lacing' or the color spreading anywhere else. That;s how E usually looks with no modifiers. I suspect that might be why some breeders are struggling with trying to get more color- they need ER but their birds might be simply all or mostly E. I can't prove it though, because there is also a plausible possibility of modifiers making them(if ER) dark.

No idea if solid colored Amers are more likely E or ER, sorry.

Yep, confusing.. with this one issue it really is best to assume as a general statement it is true- but do not be surprised if proven otherwise..

 

[Kev]

I did manage to do weights & photos of most of my latest hatch. Then I found out that since my phone performed an update, it would no longer allow me to download the photos to my computer for cropping without using data. Well, it was a trying day anyway so why not spend it fighting with a cell phone? Thank goodness my husband was more clear-headed than I've been and figured it all out for me. I'm back in business! So....here's a few photos...with LOTS of buff barring.

Starting with the worst photo, but this little one was very uncooperative. This is the White Rock + Zazzle cross:



Then Sylvester...most definitely a cockerel:


And now a few pullets (I hope):

Ah, that sly Syl! Taking sweet time before showing clear barring on the feathers. Ha! I'm sure by feather pattern the second and third are pullets... not sure on others yet. Pretty birds.

 

[Kev]

Day 5 of a severe migraine, and I actually tried to make sense of all the color genetics posts you guys have been writing. Yeah...not happening.

Bookmark or save for later reading? it IS a headache to understand. Hope you get a chance to do things that relax and give some relief, however minimal..

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

Quote:
you asked one of the more difficult questions lol I am a little confused on this subject myself. As far as I understand.. there is a fair amount of overlap between E and ER chick down. Some believe the white dot by beak is a sign of E and a lot of E do look like Michonne. Notice, the dot is almost not present on one side.. shows how variable it can be.

Other questions.. what does an E/ER chick look like? Adult plumagewise, E is dominant over ER but best not to rush thinking the same would apply to chick down. There have been several surprises where a line assumed to be pure E or ER only to sequence out to be either the other or a mixture of both.

one sign I consider to be reliable is the brown or white brushed face on black chick is ER. could not find a better pic with quick googling so am cheating by showing a sebright(100% guaranteed pure ER) chick.. ignore the feathering, look at the mask if you see it, classic ER mask. Of course most ER don;t have it, don't ask me why:

http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGP/Sebr/GSebrightChix.JPEG

As for your cross chicks, I suspect most Marans are E or E/ER mixes. Because I had black coppers, they consistently kept throwing chicks and adults that looked like examples of what E are supposed to look like without modifiers. "not enough copper"- hens with either no copper or just a minimum on the lower back hackle, roosters having it only on neck and back, no 'lacing' or the color spreading anywhere else. That;s how E usually looks with no modifiers. I suspect that might be why some breeders are struggling with trying to get more color- they need ER but their birds might be simply all or mostly E. I can't prove it though, because there is also a plausible possibility of modifiers making them(if ER) dark.

No idea if solid colored Amers are more likely E or ER, sorry.

Yep, confusing.. with this one issue it really is best to assume as a general statement it is true- but do not be surprised if proven otherwise..

Oh goody! A challenge!!!!!

I'm pretty sure now that one of the "Puppy" eggs in the incubator is actually Switch's egg. Will be super interested to see what happens!!!!

Thanks as always for the discussion of it - I always learn a little bit more each time (and you are very patient!!!)

- Ant Farm

 

[DesertChic]

you asked one of the more difficult questions lol I am a little confused on this subject myself. As far as I understand.. there is a fair amount of overlap between E and ER chick down. Some believe the white dot by beak is a sign of E and a lot of E do look like Michonne. Notice, the dot is almost not present on one side.. shows how variable it can be.

Other questions.. what does an E/ER chick look like? Adult plumagewise, E is dominant over ER but best not to rush thinking the same would apply to chick down. There have been several surprises where a line assumed to be pure E or ER only to sequence out to be either the other or a mixture of both.

one sign I consider to be reliable is the brown or white brushed face on black chick is ER. could not find a better pic with quick googling so am cheating by showing a sebright(100% guaranteed pure ER) chick.. ignore the feathering, look at the mask if you see it, classic ER mask. Of course most ER don;t have it, don't ask me why:

http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGP/Sebr/GSebrightChix.JPEG

As for your cross chicks, I suspect most Marans are E or E/ER mixes. Because I had black coppers, they consistently kept throwing chicks and adults that looked like examples of what E are supposed to look like without modifiers. "not enough copper"- hens with either no copper or just a minimum on the lower back hackle, roosters having it only on neck and back, no 'lacing' or the color spreading anywhere else. That;s how E usually looks with no modifiers. I suspect that might be why some breeders are struggling with trying to get more color- they need ER but their birds might be simply all or mostly E. I can't prove it though, because there is also a plausible possibility of modifiers making them(if ER) dark.

No idea if solid colored Amers are more likely E or ER, sorry.

Yep, confusing.. with this one issue it really is best to assume as a general statement it is true- but do not be surprised if proven otherwise..

Now I'm really curious to see how Michonne will ultimately feather out. I'm not sure whether or not the final "product" will help me better understand the color genetics or not, but it's still fun to watch.
Michonne's daddy was my birchen-esqu Pepper, who's mom was an Australorp and sire was my buff NN:


Her mom is Gypsy, my very red NN/Bielefelder cross:


I honestly didn't expect Michonne to be as uniformly black as she's turning out to be. I keep checking for indications of cream or red, but so far those white dots on her face are the only deviations to the black. The white on her wing tips and belly has completely disappeared.

 

[DesertChic]

Ah, that sly Syl! Taking sweet time before showing clear barring on the feathers. Ha! I'm sure by feather pattern the second and third are pullets... not sure on others yet. Pretty birds.

Yeah, I've got a few chicks that are keeping me guessing as to gender. Even Bonnie & Clyde, the two that hatched under my Silkie, are now suddenly looking more like Thelma & Louise. I'm noticing that my NN x NN chicks are so much easier to sex from early in, but as soon as I cross with a fully feathered bird it turns into a toss-up.