Naked Neck/Turken Thread

It's proof the parents are not pure for NN. if yours are hatchery stock, check the bow tie sizes on the parents. Not pures have a big bow tie with many feathers covering most or all of the lower front neck. Pure ones either have no feathers at all(not too common) or a very small bowtie with only a couple feathers on each side, with all of neck very visible.

Not pure roo bred with not pure hen= 1/4 full fuzz, 1/2 not pure(big bowties with lots feathers), 1/4 pure(tiny bowties). From your full fuzz chicks I can tell that at least your roo and one of the hens are not pure for NN.

The difference can be seen as soon as they hatch:

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pure on right, not pure on left. if you look closely, can see naked spots elsewhere on the pure one, such as spot between the eye and beak, smaller facial fuzz patch, etc.

however if you're working with pea combed NN.. that's a wrench in the works as pea comb reduces overall feathering so a non pure NN with peacomb can seem to be 'pretty naked'.
 
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Hey Kev, Does that sentence that states "as pea comb reduces overall feathering so a non pure NN with peacomb can seem to be 'pretty naked'." mean that any bird with a pea comb will have less feathers. I think that I remember reading that the pea comb or is it beard will erase waddles ? What purpose do waddles have other than perhaps reducing body heat in very hot weather ? Maybe it is time for me to hang out on the genetics threads !
 
Thanks for the info! I had the eggs shipped from another BYC member. No claims for purity or anything. That makes sense. I have noticed the bow tie on some of them. I have 7, just hatched in the past day or two so they've been fluffing out. I'll have more of a look at them tomorrow. I had one more hatch that has the feathered neck so that puts me at 2 out of 7.

I have one little chick recently hatched that is low on feathers everywhere. Is that normal?
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Are there any breeds that are commonly crossed with Turkens?

Thanks again. I've never had Turkens before and don't have much genetic knowledge. I'm learning more and appreciate those who take the time to explain.
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-Cielo
 
Hey Flower. Both pea and beard will reduce wattles. It's normally there, just much reduced in size compared to other comb types & non bearded. The occasional one will have the very bare minimum.. not sure what causes the size differences.

IMO, wattles and combs are decorations/sexual signal/health signal in wild chickens. Areas of bare skin are very common in birds, even some passerines(check out friar birds) and birds of paradise(MacGregor's if I remember the name right- they have naked areas on top of their heads and in their case it's very obviously as a sex attractor. the cap flushes a brilliant blue). Hens in lay have redder faces/combs/wattles and are attractive to roosters(these are way smaller on wild junglefowl females though, but it is noticeable in domestics). I say health, because if a wild rooster can maintain good health condition to have his face/wattles and comb flushed with deep red, it 'means' to the females that he has good genes for finding food, resisting disease etc. My guess the cooling is more a side effect, especially as junglefowl combs are smaller than most domestic's and also their combs shrink during non-breeding season & molt.

As for pea comb having side effect of reducing overall feathering, first came across that via Okimoto(his job is chicken genetics, unfortunately he has left to work with broiler stock only now) on another forum. It's not readily apparent on non NN however it usually shows up when pea comb is combined with NN. It's even evident on day old chicks, they have a distinctive head side profile, a lot more bare skin on the face, a ring of fuzz around the eye(on single comb it's usually the whole face is fuzzy or not so "ring shaped" looking on the single combed pures), an area of bare skin between the beak and comb area, which can give them somewhat of a mohawk or a buzz cut appearance when viewed by the side. Many also have parallel lines of bare skin running down their backs. If the chicks are chimpunk striped, some of the color will seem 'missing' due to the naked areas being where the white lines generally are. Also many of them have naked areas on the belly and around the navel at hatching.

After reading Okimoto's comment, it instantly made sense what I was seeing.. but still tested it from scratch by breeding a showgirl with a single comb with a pure American game hen I had known was heterozygous for pea comb. Each generation I selected a NN, single combed son and bred him back to her.. don't remember exactly how many generations the inbreeding went, maybe 5 times? anyways it was already at the point all of the latest offpsring were totally identical to each other except for NN vs not NN, single combed or pea combed. At hatching, these peacombed chicks always had small bowties with naked skin visible above and below the bowtie, single combs with full huge fuzzy patches over the whole front neck. I took pictures but think(hopefully) they're on the old computer in storage and haven't downloaded them yet.

I have not done a breeding to test between pure for pea comb, not pure NN vs not pure pea comb & pure NN and finally, a bird pure for both NN and pea to see if there's any difference(are they more naked or not?) and if so, how much is the difference. I probably had some pure pea combed in the NN bantam Araucana project but they didn't look "more naked".... did not make any pure NN in those though. Got burned out on so many projects and culled the flock to half, eliminating whole projects and they were one of these..
 
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Acccch. that picture is making me ache to go about setting and hatching babies! RIGHT NOW! must resist!

Turn that chick over and note the bowtie size or rather how much skin you can very easily see below the bowtie. I suspect that one may be a pure NN, and yes normal for pure NN to have even less feathers than ones not pure for NN, on the whole body. No worries, they usually have long soft feathers so the body looks mostly covered up when mature.. only at handling does the amount of naked areas become apparent.

all the "NN" talk can get a little confusing, because it's both the name of a breed AND the gene itself. My reply was strictly in regards to the gene.

Birds not pure for the NN gene are Very Common in Turken flocks, even hatchery stock chicks come roughly half pure for the gene, half not. They are all good birds, could be a personal preference.. some people prefer the look of the not pure NN(pure for NN look "too naked" to some), others want more nekidity as possible. It's only important if you would like to hatch 100% chicks with naked necks... if that's not important, then just regard it as a fun lesson in guessing which chicks may be pure for NN and which might not.. be useful for predicting come breeding and hatching time?

Backyard mixes are also very commonly not pure for NN. Mixes are also very common. Hatchery stock turkens might be mixed for NN gene purity but overall they have a consistent look, a dual purpose heavyish body, single comb, with yellow, willow, blue or occasionally white legs. They are also overall very good layers and pretty decent for meat also- less plucking at butcher time too.

Lastly but most importantly, congrats on your first NN! They are awesome birds.
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Need to hatch some more NN's, Kev? You can never have too much/many of a good thing.

Cielo.....some lovely chicks....how many have hatched?

Thought I'd just let you guys know that today my Gordon is bursting with pride. He won the Hallowe'en Birdtrader competition for "The Creepiest Bird Ever".........now that really IS a bit of a dubious title.
 
I just love Gordon! I do not think he is the creepiest bird!!!
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What is birdtrader? I am not familiar with it.

Thanks Kev for explaining all of that. Very interesting to read.
 
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Acccch. that picture is making me ache to go about setting and hatching babies! RIGHT NOW! must resist!

Turn that chick over and note the bowtie size or rather how much skin you can very easily see below the bowtie. I suspect that one may be a pure NN, and yes normal for pure NN to have even less feathers than ones not pure for NN, on the whole body. No worries, they usually have long soft feathers so the body looks mostly covered up when mature.. only at handling does the amount of naked areas become apparent.

all the "NN" talk can get a little confusing, because it's both the name of a breed AND the gene itself. My reply was strictly in regards to the gene.

Birds not pure for the NN gene are Very Common in Turken flocks, even hatchery stock chicks come roughly half pure for the gene, half not. They are all good birds, could be a personal preference.. some people prefer the look of the not pure NN(pure for NN look "too naked" to some), others want more nekidity as possible. It's only important if you would like to hatch 100% chicks with naked necks... if that's not important, then just regard it as a fun lesson in guessing which chicks may be pure for NN and which might not.. be useful for predicting come breeding and hatching time?

Backyard mixes are also very commonly not pure for NN. Mixes are also very common. Hatchery stock turkens might be mixed for NN gene purity but overall they have a consistent look, a dual purpose heavyish body, single comb, with yellow, willow, blue or occasionally white legs. They are also overall very good layers and pretty decent for meat also- less plucking at butcher time too.

Lastly but most importantly, congrats on your first NN! They are awesome birds.
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Thank you for the info! I have been eyeing the Turken for the past decade and finally got brave enough to take the plunge! The degrees of "nekidity"
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as you call it is beginning to make sense. So my "naked naked neck" is probably the only one pure for the gene? I looked at her neck and she has hardly any feathers there, her "bow tie" consists of what looks like a couple random hairs, they look odd, like they shouldn't be there. My other "not pure" but still partially naked necked have HUGE bow ties and feathery necks comparatively. She also has very scant feathering on her face. I'll take some photos later. I'm letting the incubator chicks sleep in before I move them in with the others in the brooder.

I have 7 chicks hatched in the past 2 days. I started with 18 shipped eggs. It's my first time incubating so I'm learning a lot. I've had poultry off and on for a decade but have always just bought female chicks from the feed store or been given chicks from my sister.

"The Creepiest Bird Ever"!? Wonderful! Turkens prove creepy can be cute. I think they are so weird looking they are beautiful.

So a chick "pure" for NN will have to copies of the gene and thus end up pretty dang naked? I have 1 of these.
A chick with one NN gene will be various degrees of naked and likely have a large bow tie? I have 4 of these.
A chick with no NN gene will have a feathered neck? I have 2 of these.

Even my feathered neck chicks seem a little scant on feathers but it may be my imagination as I don't have any other chicks right now to compare them with.

I am interested in the meat possibilities of the Turken. I usually don't process my chickens for eating because I find feathers to be a hassle and hardly worth the time. I raise rabbits and my sister raises goats so that forms the bulk of my meat. Rabbits and goats are easy to butcher. Feathers... argh, such a mess! So a lightly feathered chicken with size intrigues me. It could be the perfect chicken? Coupled with their unique goofy looks...
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Do you find them to be okay in Winter? Winter where I live averages a daily high in the high 30s- 40s and daily lows of high 20s- low 30s. I live in kind of a desert basin by the Columbia River in Washington State. Not the coldest but not warm either, looking at that naked chick I have visions of chicken turtle neck sweaters!

Thanks again for the help!
-Cielo
 
Lisa Birdtrader is a British site for buying and selling all kinds of birds/feed/equipment/bird housing etc. Gordon may look 'different' but he has the sweetest nature ever, but I do have to admit his looks appeal more to those who love NNs than to those who find them ugly......so his looks are appreciated on this thread.

I don't find NNs ugly at all, and there are a wide variety of quirky looks in the poultry world, many of which will be considered as unattractive by some. I always think the most unattractive feature a bird can have is an aggressive nature.

And, as always, Kev's explanation was both comprehensive and comprehensible.
 
Congrats to Gordon!
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I know that not everyone thinks NN's are gorgeous. Funny story of when I got my very first chickens. My teenage daughter was the one home to receive them and she thought there was something wrong with the chicks missing feathers on their necks and was very upset. I then explained to her the NN's and of course then she thought they were the cutest chicks out of the bunch. LOL
I do think they make the cutest chicks!
 

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