Naked Neck/Turken Thread

[Kev]

thank you!

I don't think the white is dominant as they have a bit reddish on the top of the few feathers. and they have yellow legs. I like black chickens so I will go for it! at the moment I have no barred chickens so it would be really good to have some.

No problem.

Actually that sounds probable dominant white as normally recessive white is totally white while dominant white leaks pretty easily.

This is because dominant white really works by repressing the black pigments and doesn't have much 'power' in repressing gold series pigments. Good examples of this are ISA Browns, various red sex link hens etc- those birds are in the Rhode island red color pattern, with the dominant white turning their black tails and necks white while only slightly diluting the red body.

So to make a solid white using dominant white, you need to make a solid black chicken... other unrelated genes are also often added to make sure the white stays clean white and/or to help with making the legs a clean yellow or white color. For example, barring also has the side effect of removing pigments from the legs, so it's often added to whites to both keep the white feathers AND the legs clear of pigments. Less common additions are mottle, blue, Bsd etc.

When you cross a black chicken with a colored chicken, it is very typical for the chicks to start out black but eventually show some color 'leaking'- black sex links are a great example.

Also common challenge is to keep the black chickens solid black... because there is not really a single gene that makes a chicken totally black. They usually have one of the main 'black chicken' genes plus additional genes to fill in the leaky areas with more black pigment. This is why the black chicken- colored chicken crosses normally show some 'other' color as they grow- they're missing or not pure for those 'helper genes'.

So it's possible your white bird showing some red is a mostly black chicken with some red leaking... dominant white would cover up all the black but since it is not so strong with the gold pigments the leaky red areas are showing through..

However, while normally recessives are solid white no matter what color they are over, very occasionally one will still show some leakage.

The only way to be 100% sure is to cross them and see what comes up..... that's part of fun with genetics....

 

[chickengr]

No problem.

Actually that sounds probable dominant white as normally recessive white is totally white while dominant white leaks pretty easily.

This is because dominant white really works by repressing the black pigments and doesn't have much 'power' in repressing gold series pigments. Good examples of this are ISA Browns, various red sex link hens etc- those birds are in the Rhode island red color pattern, with the dominant white turning their black tails and necks white while only slightly diluting the red body.

So to make a solid white using dominant white, you need to make a solid black chicken... other unrelated genes are also often added to make sure the white stays clean white and/or to help with making the legs a clean yellow or white color. For example, barring also has the side effect of removing pigments from the legs, so it's often added to whites to both keep the white feathers AND the legs clear of pigments. Less common additions are mottle, blue, Bsd etc.

When you cross a black chicken with a colored chicken, it is very typical for the chicks to start out black but eventually show some color 'leaking'- black sex links are a great example.

Also common challenge is to keep the black chickens solid black... because there is not really a single gene that makes a chicken totally black. They usually have one of the main 'black chicken' genes plus additional genes to fill in the leaky areas with more black pigment. This is why the black chicken- colored chicken crosses normally show some 'other' color as they grow- they're missing or not pure for those 'helper genes'.

So it's possible your white bird showing some red is a mostly black chicken with some red leaking... dominant white would cover up all the black but since it is not so strong with the gold pigments the leaky red areas are showing through..

However, while normally recessives are solid white no matter what color they are over, very occasionally one will still show some leakage.

The only way to be 100% sure is to cross them and see what comes up..... that's part of fun with genetics....

I see. I can't wait for the next year to cross them. my pullets still don't lay, a cockerel is still a chick and I haven't picked him up yet but I am planning to cross them, lol. that is chicken obsessed! I hope all of them will survive the winter!

 

[Phill98]

No problem. 

Actually that sounds probable dominant white as normally recessive white is totally white while dominant white leaks pretty easily.

This is because dominant white really works by repressing the black pigments and doesn't have much 'power' in repressing gold series pigments.   Good examples of this are ISA Browns, various red sex link hens etc- those birds are in the Rhode island red color pattern, with the dominant white turning their black tails and necks white while only slightly diluting the red body.

So to make a solid white using dominant white, you need to make a solid black chicken...   other unrelated genes are also often added to make sure the white stays clean white and/or to help with making the legs a clean yellow or white color.   For example, barring also has the side effect of removing pigments from the legs, so it's often added to whites to both keep the white feathers AND the legs clear of pigments.   Less common additions are mottle, blue, Bsd etc.

When you cross a black chicken with a colored chicken, it is very typical for the chicks to start out black but eventually show some color 'leaking'- black sex links are a great example.

Also common challenge is to keep the black chickens solid black... because there is not really a single gene that makes a chicken totally black. They usually have one of the main 'black chicken' genes plus additional genes to fill in the leaky areas with more black pigment.  This is why the black chicken- colored chicken crosses normally show some 'other' color as they grow- they're missing or not pure for those 'helper genes'.

So it's possible your white bird showing some red is a mostly black chicken with some red leaking... dominant white would cover up all the black but since it is not so strong with the gold pigments the leaky red areas are showing through..

However, while normally recessives are solid white no matter what color they are over, very occasionally one will still show some leakage.

The only way to be 100% sure is to cross them and see what comes up.....  that's part of fun with genetics....

Kev, this post is awsome and tells a lot. Thank you for it.

I have one hen that is snow white color, black legs and no leakage. I guess it's recessive white. So to get another one like this I have to find a roo that has at least one recessive white gene, am I right? I realy love the color, I can't say how bright white she is.

 

[Kev]

I see. I can't wait for the next year to cross them. my pullets still don't lay, a cockerel is still a chick and I haven't picked him up yet but I am planning to cross them, lol. that is chicken obsessed! I hope all of them will survive the winter!

That's the not so great part of genetics play... waiting for them to grow up.. hurry, hurry!

How cold do your winters get? I'm in southern California so the winters are pretty mild- either no freezing nights or only a few. I do have to deal with extremely hot summers though.. 110-120F, ugh...

 

[Kev]

Kev, this post is awsome and tells a lot. Thank you for it.

I have one hen that is snow white color, black legs and no leakage. I guess it's recessive white. So to get another one like this I have to find a roo that has at least one recessive white gene, am I right? I realy love the color, I can't say how bright white she is.

You're welcome!

She does sound like recessive white, they often are sparkling white. To my eyes dominant white often are a flat, softer white.

Yes you want a rooster that is carrying a recessive white. If you can't find one, breed her to the blackest rooster with the blackest legs and all of the chicks probably will be solid black but all are white carriers.

If she does not have any gray or black tint to her body skin(check the underside of wings and also open the vent) due to fibromelanosis(black skin) then her black legs is probably from her being a solid black chicken under that white. The genes for black chickens also have the side effect of putting black pigments on the legs.

 

[DesertChic]

No problem.

Actually that sounds probable dominant white as normally recessive white is totally white while dominant white leaks pretty easily.

This is because dominant white really works by repressing the black pigments and doesn't have much 'power' in repressing gold series pigments. Good examples of this are ISA Browns, various red sex link hens etc- those birds are in the Rhode island red color pattern, with the dominant white turning their black tails and necks white while only slightly diluting the red body.

So to make a solid white using dominant white, you need to make a solid black chicken... other unrelated genes are also often added to make sure the white stays clean white and/or to help with making the legs a clean yellow or white color. For example, barring also has the side effect of removing pigments from the legs, so it's often added to whites to both keep the white feathers AND the legs clear of pigments. Less common additions are mottle, blue, Bsd etc.

When you cross a black chicken with a colored chicken, it is very typical for the chicks to start out black but eventually show some color 'leaking'- black sex links are a great example.

Also common challenge is to keep the black chickens solid black... because there is not really a single gene that makes a chicken totally black. They usually have one of the main 'black chicken' genes plus additional genes to fill in the leaky areas with more black pigment. This is why the black chicken- colored chicken crosses normally show some 'other' color as they grow- they're missing or not pure for those 'helper genes'.

So it's possible your white bird showing some red is a mostly black chicken with some red leaking... dominant white would cover up all the black but since it is not so strong with the gold pigments the leaky red areas are showing through..

However, while normally recessives are solid white no matter what color they are over, very occasionally one will still show some leakage.

The only way to be 100% sure is to cross them and see what comes up..... that's part of fun with genetics....

I'm still compiling all of the information like this that you post here. Keep an eye out in bookstores for "Chicken Genetics According to Kev".

 

[Goosegrrl]

I'm still compiling all of the information like this that you post here. Keep an eye out in bookstores for "Chicken Genetics According to Kev".

Seriously... a veritable font of genetics information.
Love it!

 

[Phill98]

You're welcome!

She does sound like recessive white, they often are sparkling white.  To my eyes dominant white often are a flat, softer white.

Yes you want a rooster that is carrying a recessive white.   If you can't find one, breed her to the blackest rooster with the blackest legs and all of the chicks probably will be solid black but all are white carriers.  

If she does not have any gray or black tint to her body skin(check the underside of wings and also open the vent) due to fibromelanosis(black skin) then her black legs is probably from her being a solid black chicken under that white.  The genes for black chickens also have the side effect of putting black pigments on the legs.

I don't see anything special in dominant white chickens, but the recessive ones are awsome!

About that rooster, if I get any chick rooster from her, it should have one recessive white gene but he will not show it. If I breed him back to her, I shoul get about 50% recessive white chicks. Other should be the same color as that rooster, right? Now my question is, why should I breed her to black rooster if colors don't leak in recessive white chickens?
Am I going to get some leaking if I use some other color or is something else going to happen?

Oh and she only has black legs nothing else.

 

[chickengr]

That's the not so great part of genetics play... waiting for them to grow up.. hurry, hurry!

How cold do your winters get? I'm in southern California so the winters are pretty mild- either no freezing nights or only a few. I do have to deal with extremely hot summers though.. 110-120F, ugh...

I live in greece. no winter either and hot summers. mosquitoes are bonus I guess, lol. the only problem in winter is that we have strong winds, sometimes storms. I live on salamina island, the nearest island to athens (mainland is 15 minutes away by ferry boat). I live close to the sea so the air is fresh and humid at winter, not good for the chickens.

 

[Kassaundra]

I live in greece. no winter either and hot summers. mosquitoes are bonus I guess, lol. the only problem in winter is that we have strong winds, sometimes storms. I live on salamina island, the nearest island to athens (mainland is 15 minutes away by ferry boat). I live close to the sea so the air is fresh and humid at winter, not good for the chickens.

Greece, no winter, island, ocean breeze ............................................... so VERY jealous!!!!!!!!