Necropsy results, is not coryza or CRD--parasites are rampant!!!

[fishermans wife]

I just have to say that I was battling tape this winter and dawg helped me with great advice. Not only did I have successful worming, but my flock has not looked this good in a long time and I am getting gigantic eggs every day from most of them, but it has also reduced the feed amount I was going through. I have had friends tell me there hens have stopped laying for no apparent reason and when I suggest a worming they say "they don't have worms....because I have never seen them". I have learned to smile and walk away as they don't believe me. Oh well, I am enjoying my chickens and eggs and it feels good to know I am doing what I can to keep them healthy.

 

[Sunflowergirl]

Dawg, I have really appreciated all the info you have been posting! I was wondering if this regimen of withholding food and dosing 3 times was more specific for tape worms as opposed the other worms? Also, this appears to be a higher dose than in previous posts with the dose and then dose 10 days later?
Thanks in advance!

Tgooberbutt. Those are tapeworm segments. Each segment carries hundreds of eggs which are eventually eaten by earthworms and other insects, which in turn are eaten by your chickens. Then your chickens become infected, the tapeworms lifecycle is completed. Purchase valbazen liquid cattle/sheep wormer. Withhold the chickens feed for 24 hours, but not their water. After 24 hours, dose your chickens 1cc valbazen orally undiluted for standard size birds, 1/2cc for smaller birds. Wait 4 days then withhold feed for 24 hours on the 5th day. Then on the 6th day redose again 1cc orally undiluted (standards.) Wait 4 days then withhold feed for 24 hours on the 5th day. Redose again on the 6th day. You'll be dosing them a total of three times. Tapes are tough to get rid of and require multiple wormings. I've dealt with them. There is a 14 day withdrawal period after the last worming. It's possible to see the tapeworm excreted after dosing with valbazen, otherwise they are broken up in the digestive system and absorbed as protein. They come in different shapes,sizes, sometimes stringy... tapes are flat and segmented.
Cecal worms are roundworms, normally 1/4"- 1/2" in length. Large roundworms are normally 3"- 6" in length.

 

[dawg53]

Yes, tapeworms are difficult to get rid of. Withholding feed weakens the tapeworms making the valbazen more effective as well as increased dosage and sooner redosing periods. Most other types of worms require an initial worming followed by another dosing 10 days later to kill larva hatched from eggs missed by the initial dosing. The exception would be gapeworms, much like tapes, gapes are difficult to get rid of. However, gapes are rare in chickens.

 

[Sunflowergirl]

Thank you so much Dawg!

I have one more question, do you store the dewormers in the refrigerator? I was able to get the Safe-guard (fenbendazole) from my local vet supply in a SMALL bottle (125 ml). The Valbazen would have been in a litre!!! I will be getting that from the Jefferslivestock.

Made for an exciting morning!

Unplugged the pop door to the coop and made an executive decision that the crowing roo would be the first to get the dose and shoved OUT! Wonderful advice on grabbing the wattles and pulling down. Only had one chicken, a clean-faced EE that had NO WATTLES to speak of!!! Kinda had to just pry my finger and thumb between her beak to get it down her.

Note to self, only get chickens with wattles!!!

 

[ellend]

Quote: Not around here! You have to be quite lucky to find a vet--even one you have a long relationship with--who will prescribe ANYTHING without an office call. $70. to walk in the door, extra for tests.

 

[ellend]

so, i have a question - maybe two:

1) how is it possible that there is no natural way to deal with worms? are you suggesting that nature doesn't have a way to deal with this problem? without human superiority, all chickens would die from worms? let me go ahead and say i'm not engaging, or trying to start, a "fight". i'm sincerely curious.

2) how do you justify eating a bird, or an egg, after you've treated them with those chemicals? a horse wormer? you're eating what your chicken eats. i personally find that scary, and am interested in your response. i will openly admit, perhaps i'm not seeing the whole picture.

1. Most wild animals have parasites. In nature, the more an animal NEEDS to "replicate" itself (because of high rates of mortality / short lives) the more "babies" it has every year. Elephants--one every 2-1/2 years, sparrows: two clutches of 4-5 eggs each year. Lots of fledgling deaths, poor nests, high rate of adult deaths from predation. Wild ancestors of chickens couldn't be expected to have long lifespans as a whole, although there will be exceptions. No wild animals, and precious few domestic animals, get away without parasites if they live for long. The parasite load will vary with nutrition, infection rate, and general health. (I believe it was a parasitic infection that killed Elsa the lioness, from "Born Free.") 14% of all children on any playground have pinworm at any given time (more on some continents.) Isn't that a fun statistic? In stories about early North American settlement, you may read about children, particularly those of very poor farmers living in the south, going to school barefoot, malnourished, and sleepy, with dark circles under their eyes. This was anemia from hookworms picked up in pigpens; they burrow through the soles of the feet. Have you seen photos of people in Africa with absolutely ENORMOUS legs? It's elephantiasis; a microfilaria that clogs (the lymphatic system?) in the legs. (Nothing to do with elephants) More parasites on this earth than we can count, but most creatures, including us, die of something else before the parasite load gets us. Eating some things might decrease the load periodically; arsenic kills liver fluke (you get flukes from eating infected raw FRESHwater fish) but it can go either way. The worms flukes might die first, or you might go together. Same way in nature.

2. Watch your withdrawl periods. I don't know if poultry roundworms are the same, but mammalian roundworms can, with severe infestations, encyst in muscle and brain. Bears have a very high rate of trichinosis because of their diets (omnivore scavenger that's why most people don't eat bear. Life is a juggling game. The most e-coli laden greens often come from little, and often organic, farms. So, you "pick your poison": buy from commercial growers that use more stringent guidelines, or from small places that don't use pesticides and chemicals, wash the dickens out of your produce, and smile. Something's going to get you sooner or later no matter what, but pesticides and defoliants and commercial farming practices are helping to destroy this earth. Cost to benefit ratio in decision making.

Just found a nice big roundworm in my pen today, and a ruffled up, unhappy banty. Sigh. I've been MEANING to order that Ivermectin pour-on...

 

[dawg53]

Ellend. I agree with your post. This day and time most backyard flocks are confined to a yard that doesnt have the natural "poisons" to paralyze or kill internal parasites like the birds in the past had in the wild where they instinctively ate certain plants that controlled internal parasites. Birds that are penned are more susceptable to worm infestations, simply being on the same soil all the time. Therefore, birds need to be routinely wormed and wormers rotated.
FYI: Ivermectin is just about useless as a wormer anymore. I stopped using it several years ago. I recommend valbazen or safeguard. Valbazen also kills flukes.
There are no established withdrawal periods for most wormers, perhaps a couple of slaughter withdrawal periods though. Birds in commercial operations arnt wormed because they only live for about 6 months for meat production, layers for 2 years...no need to worm these birds, they are shipped off and processed. Layers are caged up off the floor, no chance getting worms. Withdrawal testing for eggs would cost too much for backyard flocks...the money just isnt there. Legally, it's better for the companies to simply say "do not consume eggs after using this product" or "this product is not for use in poultry."
Generally, it's safe to say 14 days is enough time for eggs to be safe to eat with little or no residue in the eggs. Some people eat the eggs after worming. How does one know if they'll have an allergic reaction to the residue in the eggs? The same is true for antibiotic residues in eggs. Keep in mind that wormers are poisons designed to paralyze or kill internal parasites.

 

[tgooberbutt]

@ellend - that is a very thoughtful answer, and I, like dawg, totally agree. On the eating eggs/meat after treating with those chemicals...I treated with praziquantel for tapeworms, and praziquantel is actually also used to treat tapeworms in humans too. If you think about all the wacky chemicals we as humans eat on a daily basis and use for our own medication...well...it's yet another one of those tradeoffs that has to be made. If you're worried about consuming the residue of the medicine, just follow a withdrawal period recommended on BYC...medicines seem to pass through chickens very quickly (matter of days).

 

[Janniemomma]

Thank you for posting this....just lost a chicken for no reason ...thin etc. I will make worming part of my routine. How often, only doing it once a year.

 

[seminolewind]

Janniemama, please post if you lose any more chickens the same way.