Need Good Ol' Chicken Dog

[sbhkma]

In general, better get to get one at 4-5 wks and start training rather than trust a rescue

I just had to point out that ANY trainer worth a darn knows you do NOT take pups away from their mother at 4-5 weeks. At that age they still NEED the nutrition from their mother. They need to be with them at the very least 7 weeks and 8-9 weeks is better. They need that time to learn about canine social structure and they learn this from their mother and siblings. There are many areas where it is illegal to take pups away from their mothers at such a young age!

 

[HeritageGoose13]

Where can you get a puppy at 4-5 weeks? That's illegal where I live. They need to be with their mother until 8 weeks. Most breeders keep them 10-12 weeks.

 

[Mutt Farm]

I just had to point out that ANY trainer worth a darn knows you do NOT take pups away from their mother at 4-5 weeks. At that age they still NEED the nutrition from their mother. They need to be with them at the very least 7 weeks and 8-9 weeks is better. They need that time to learn about canine social structure and they learn this from their mother and siblings. There are many areas where it is illegal to take pups away from their mothers at such a young age!

No argument here about reputable breeders not selling before 8 weeks. I don't breed, but know very well that not all folks who have a litter of pups are reputable, take good care or adhere to that. One only needs to look in the Penny Saver or Craig's list or drive down a country road for Free Pup signs. Regarding "ranch" dogs, in my area it's quite common to see pups from un-vaccinated, wormy unsocialized dams sold or traded as good livestock guards. GSD's and Heelers are most common. In those cases, after the 4-5 week mark, the pups could begin learning undesirable behaviors from the dam, can succumb to diseases or roundworms. In those cases, I do believe it is better to remove the pup early and start enrichment rather than leave them to learn undesirable behaviors. Please enjoy this explination of developmental stages in puppies from UC Davis http://ice.ucdavis.edu/~robyn/Korina/BCIdeas/Criticalperiodsinpuppydevelopment.html

@HeritageGoose13 The law for selling or shipping in my state is 8 weeks. Guide Dogs of America places their pups with raisers at 49 days. Seems to be working. Please see above.

 

[Mutt Farm]

@ConPollos @sbhkma ,
@HeritageGoose13
As a new member to BYC, I've learned a lot from this thread. I've learned that folks can be quite aggressive and hateful. I've learned through this thread that if you comment an opposing thought , even if that comment is supported by scientific facts, you might be packed on. Your every word will be criticized. Funny. Where is the OP in this continuum?? Oh. 400 posts ago. Seems ya'll are talking to each other to vindicate each other. Sad. May I suggest that sometimes gentle people that are passionate and knowledgeable about a subject jump in to offer their knowledge, yet don't expect to be belittled for not agreeing with you. I'm accustomed to open conversations between opposing viewpoints to gain knowledge. Good to know that's not welcomed on BYC.. Hope you got your jollies. Not another "peep" from me.

 

[HeritageGoose13]

I'm waiting for the OP to return as well. Lots of good advice has been given. I don't know what you think was hateful. Personally I love this thread, lots of good information has been shared.

 

[TalkALittle]

That's a downside to forums. You can read a "tone" into a post that wasn't the intended one. Just like it appeared to one poster that Mutt had called them ignorant, it seems Mutt feels that some of the rebuttals posted have been hateful.

What I've learned is that to not be driven crazy by forum posts you need to have a bit of a thick skin, not to post in haste, wait an hour or two and reread a post before commenting, try and imagine the other person's experience that brought them to their conclusions, and give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

You cannot change everyone's mind, even if what you are saying is right. Because guess what? They think they are just as right as you. I too am a certified dog trainer and obedience instructor trained to teach owners to train their own dogs. As I've been reading this thread I've said to myself "Oh, this thread's gonna end up having to be closed like all the others about dog training methods have." It'll be unfortunate if it is.

It does seem like it's the same members that comment on this topic every time. I imagine there's a huge bank of knowledge that if shared in a civil and respectful manner could be of great benefit to all. While I disagree with some statements, the day I stop wondering and exploring just what causes people to come to their opinions is the day I should hang up my hat because I can't teach anyone if I don't take the time and effort to understand where they are coming from.

 

[the poppster]

I've been looking for a dog to protect the 'free range' flock, but keep getting murderers instead.  I've been to the pound twice now, trying to kill two birds with one stone...no pun intended.  When I get them at the pound, I usually get young pups.  I raise them with the chickens, feed them together and just make sure they're used to the chickens.  They always turn on them as soon as they're big enough.  Last attempt, I got a mixed breed Great Pyrenees that was doing really well.  Last week we had a couple of our ducks wandering around the yard acting funny.  Upon inspection they had both been badly hurt.  We tried to treat them and clean them but the maggots were too far invested, and the ducks died the second night.  It didn't really look like something the dog would've done, but we were still a little leery.  Well, this morning when I went out to greet the birds and feed everyone, there was the pup sitting over one of my full grown chickens.  She was already dead and the pup was chewing on her.  Again, I'm not 100% it was the girl pup, but when are you ever 100% without seeing the act?  Anyway, she has to go too now and it's really a shame because she is a really smart and beautiful dog.

The reason for my post is, I NEED A GOOD CHICKEN DOG!!!  Does anyone have any recommendations on training a dog for such a job?  I know there are breed specifically bred for such jobs, but I really don't have the money to be buying $500+ dogs.  Please help!

my advice to you is to try a guard Goose...a nice big white one...feed it with the flock and house it close by...I had one in with my birds and it pretty much kept most day time predators at bay...they were always closed in at night...the goose had its own little house,do not start with a baby goose..get an older one preferably one that is familiar with chickens...the chickens might beat up on a really young goose..they didn't seem to mind Gooser Honkala...if the goose made the alarm noise and stood still out in the middle of the yard..all the chickens would run for cover...then you would look up to see what it was the goose was watching..and way up in the sky you would see a speck...flying in circles above the yard...when Gooser decided it was safe..the chickens would come out of hiding and resume their normal behavior...try a goose.

 

[HeritageGoose13]

2 geese is better than one, as they do best that way and will be even more protective if they are protecting their mate.

I agree, get a pair of geese.

 

[TytoAlba]

I'm fascinated by this subject because I would love to have a farm dog. Never having raised a puppy myself, I fully appreciate that training a dog takes a lot of time, a lot of work, and a lot of patience. But at the same time I'm curious, because it seems like my grandparents always had a dog that ran loose around the farm and lived outside full time but they also had free range chickens just like all the other farmers in those times. My grandparents certainly didn't have the money to be buying fancy dog breeds specifically bred for livestock guarding instincts, every farm dog was a mutt, and they spent so many hours a day actually working on the farm that I'm certain they didn't have the time to devote to too much intensive training. And the dogs were well-socialized enough that when we visited as kids the dogs always greeted us, let us pet them, and followed us around. How did it work in those days? Did the farmers just accept the dog killing chickens? I can't imagine that's the case because very soon they probably wouldn't have a flock left. I'm not trying to challenge anyone's assertion or experience with training livestock guardian dogs because I know dogs are predators. I actually am just very curious because I can't reconcile how they made that situation work. Back in those days people didn't spend near as much time or money on their pets as we do know, and in fact they didn't even really consider the farm dog a "pet". I would be interested in everyone's thoughts.

 

[centrarchid]

I'm fascinated by this subject because I would love to have a farm dog.  Never having raised a puppy myself, I fully appreciate that training a dog takes a lot of time, a lot of work, and a lot of patience.  But at the same time I'm curious, because it seems like my grandparents always had a dog that ran loose around the farm and lived outside full time but they also had free range chickens just like all the other farmers in those times.  My grandparents certainly didn't have the money to be buying fancy dog breeds specifically bred for livestock guarding instincts, every farm dog was a mutt, and they spent so many hours a day actually working on the farm that I'm certain they didn't have the time to devote to too much intensive training.  And the dogs were well-socialized enough that when we visited as kids the dogs always greeted us, let us pet them, and followed us around.  How did it work in those days?  Did the farmers just accept the dog killing chickens?  I can't imagine that's the case because very soon they probably wouldn't have a flock left.  I'm not trying to challenge anyone's assertion or experience with training livestock guardian dogs because I know dogs are predators.  I actually am just very curious because I can't reconcile how they made that situation work.  Back in those days people didn't spend near as much time or money on their pets as we do know, and in fact they didn't even really consider the farm dog a "pet".  I would be interested in everyone's thoughts.

We did as you describe into my 20's. You belittle the effort side. The pampering and breed parts are correct.