Need help!The City of Fenton, MI says I need to get rid of my chckens

[Normark]

Hello dretd

See,, now here I would consider this a legitimate complaint. You know where they are coming from, you can prove via pictures where they are coming from and the fact that they haven't taken care of this problem may be a Golden Opportunity for you...

Have you Complained ?

If Yes,, then you need to Follow up, and do a "Notice of Intent" and place them in Contract.

This is done by writing a Notice of Intent, with a signed Affidavit, something to the tune of " You have 14 days to comply. After that date I start charging $150.00 an hour". Have it Notarized (3 copies). Send the Township one, send Bylaw Enforcement one and send one to yourself. Registered mail.

Had you been taking care of this property yourself for the period of which Squatter's Rights can be evoked. Simply send a "Claim of Right" and move the fence to the other side of your new property.

Any claim that you make if Not denied or Challenged shall be Know as the Truth.

Meaning that if by a certain reasonable amount of time, a claim you make is not answered to your satisfaction it Automatically becomes True, by Claim of Intent or Right. Depending on how you do it, you can make it easy, or Impossible to answer within the allotted time frame.

This is also known as a Tactic Agreement


Notice of Claim

http://www.google.ca/search?q=Notic...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Notice of Intent

http://www.google.ca/search?q=Notic...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Tacit Agreement

http://www.google.ca/search?q=Tacit...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

This all may look Very Off Topic,, However it is Very much to do with Chickens and your Right to Own Chickens if used correctly...

Peace

Eric

 

[Normark]

Hello Sonoran

Like I said...

Completely Misrepresented Purposefully Misused...
Again,, most of what we believe is based on Common Law. Self Regulation, Little to No g-ment involvement in our lives, Self Reliance and Mutual, Peaceful, Nonviolent Cooperation between humans and Self Responsibility when it comes to the law.

Because we are Anarchists, does not mean we live under lawlessness..Nothing could be further from the truth


Here is the Anarchists FAQ

http://infoshop.org/page/AnAnarchistFAQ


Here is Background on the Anarchist movement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism

That we are black hooded rock throwers is Misleading.

Peace

Eric

 

[ranchhand]

Quote:
That is Only because we Allow it to Trump logic and reason.

The :farm animal" bylaw was put into place to keep cows and horses and pigs and Roosters out of towns and cities for obvious reasons. Which is legitimate to a point.. However times have changed..What were never "farm animals" now are..Elk,Yaks,Al Paces, Llamas, Emu etc etc etc..

What were once "farm animals" are now being kept as pets.. Pets that supply us with food...

What it boils down to is the legitimacy of the law itself.

If you are allowed 3 dogs in town, there is NO legitimate reason that you shouldn't be able to have 3 milking goats. There is No difference What So Ever between a large dog and a milking goat,, other than the sound it makes. In fact the goat is 100% Green and Eco Friendly. The goats dropping are composted, the dog's dropping are not.. Dog shyte smells, the goat does not. Dog in an Omivore the goat is a Vegetarian (for the most part)

Dogs can attack people a goat will not. Goat provides organic food for the family, a dog does not...

So you see, there are many more legitimate reason for having a goat then a dog. The pros to having a goat, outweigh the pros of a dog.


The law is arbitrary, which makes it Invalid because it serves no purpose .

I have argued the backyard chicken debate with people because of the Sarah Lock issue for a couple of weeks now...

There is absolutely not one complaint or reason that is legitimate. Their Entire and I do mean Entire argument is based on conjecture and " What If's"

"What if the Chickens Smell?" then Call Bylaw Enforcement. What if your Dog Smells?

Then they try to sneak in things like the feral cat problem, which has absolutely Nothing to do with chickens or goats.. As if flocks of feral chickens will be roaming the city.. Preposterous!

I had one guy tell me that if they allowed everyone who wanted to raise chickens for eggs, that we'd be soon putting stores out of business. This is the mentality of someone who is uninformed, and quite frankly an Imbecile.

Once you shovel away the thin layer of Rhetoric, and dispelled the Wild Fantasy of conjecture, you expose their house of cards, which collapses under it's own weight.

Another thing that we have to remember is individual and home owners property rights.

Unless I'm doing something dangerous or disturbing to my neighbors and community,, it's Absolutely NOBODY'S BUSINESS what I do.

I had bylaw enforcement on my property after I received a poorly done anonymous complaint letter, typed on an electric typewriter, speeling mistakes were corrected with white out and a red pen) LMAO.

By the powers of Deduction I know exactly who sent it.. LOL

The complaint was over the length of my front lawn, that is completely hidden by a thick triple row wall of cedars . If ya weren't Nosy, you'd never know... I considered the letter a challenge and threatened my entire family Jokingly with using vise grips on their knuckles
if anyone even Thought about touching the grass.

Bylaw enforcement came, I asked him why it was anything of his business. He told me that his job was to "protect agriculture land".

We live on a private drive with about 10 other houses.We are zoned "Estate" property.

I stepped out onto the drive, looked both ways and asked him "Do you See any agriculture land around here?" He hadn't an answer for that.

I then pointed across the lane to my neighbor's property and his 10 acres of weeds. He then said " I'm headed there next!" I replied with " Good Luck with that he's a biologist at the University!" I chuckled and he hung his head..

He then asked why I wasn't cutting my 1000 sq ft. of completely hidden front yard. I asked him " Why is that a problem, and again what does it matter to you?"

After an awkward pause I said " I'm Naturalizing" and when he dropped his chin for the second time I knew I had him Exactly where I wanted him.

He said " At Least cut the Thistles" I replied, " But what will the Hummingbirds use for nesting material and feed their babies with? "

When he hung his head for the third time, I was starting to enjoy it and could barely contain myself from letting him have it with both barrels. The only thing that saved him was the fact that he was once a client of ours. He then basically said that he had to write his report and couldn't promise that there wouldn't be another visit. I said " No problem. You have to do what you have to do and I'll do what I'll have to do" I waited another 3-4 weeks to see if he was going a follow up. No Show!

A couple of years ago I had bylaw enforcement come out to inquire about the condition of my property. He gets out of his truck and I say " Can I Help you? " He says " Whats all of this Junk laying around? " Ahh boy,, wrong person to mess with, Wrong approach...

I said " Who are you? and Why should I care ? " Then asked him if they just found him something to do to keep him on the payroll. I chased him back into his truck with a shovel. When he threatened to be back next week to "cut your lawn for you" I told him that he's better bring a bucket and a wheelbarrow because the minute the township mower touches my property I would be dismantling it with a Pick axe piece by piece ...

We were in the middle of having a Heat Pump put in, the driveway was a disaster and I was cleaning out my boat and trailer.. Regardless of what we were doing still none of his business.


I posted that just to show how I stand on bylaw enforcement...

They attempt to intimidate with false power. I resist, and refuse to comply to Anything like that. My Property, My Business.

The way to fight this, if town council refuses to listen is to simply Resist and Non Compliance. One person in this thread had her chickens taken and Euthanized what ?? Who has the power to remove Private property from your home ??

First of all.. Unless you're invited onto my property you're Trespassing. Just coming to my door constitutes Trespassing, with the exception of Fire, Ambulance and Police. Even the Police cannot walk onto your property and remove anything. Anyone that removes anything without your Express permission is committing Robbery. Simply do not Allow it to happen. Take names, lay charges.

If you are ticketed, send them back to where they came from. Do not budge, do not Bend and Do Not Contract with them. If you have accidentally went into contract with them, Revoke the contract (Specifically) with a Notice of Claim of Right. Then do not go into contract with them... Force them to function under Common Law, don't even acknowledge their perceived "authority" over you...

Ok,, WoW..

RANT MODE

**OFF**

Bills and Beaks
Peace and Love

Eric

**edited to remove profanity and censor by-passing**

Quote:
Thank you,, but I'm not planning on being arrested. I'm peaceful, non violent,, however Will defend my property and my belongings...

This inability for Non Compliance though is what binds us to Unjust Laws. Through Fear we are being Controlled, which by Definition makes it Fascism.

Appreciate the Support in Any way we can get it...

Thanks

Eric

Maybe not assault, but sounds pretty antagonistic to me. Why not just ask who he was, without the unecessary profanity, and hear him out, answer politely and ask him to leave? I may well be off base, but it sounds like you are spoiling for a fight?

 

[Normark]

Hello Ranchhand

"Maybe not assault, but sounds pretty antagonistic to me. Why not just ask who he was, without the unecessary profanity, and hear him out, answer politely and ask him to leave?"

He was asked to leave nicely.. I also asked " Can I Help You? ".

It was his posturing and attempt at intimidation that set me off. "What is all of this "Junk" doing here. Sorry,,when my property is referred to ask "junk" when it was clearly obvious that we were under construction, I had a trench cut through my driveway, and my boat and trailer were being sorted out...

He was the one spoiling for a fight when he started playing the Big shot Bylaw Enforcement officer. The profanity entered the picture when he was repeated asked to leave. He was removed from the property because he didn't know enough to shut up and get back into his truck. I was well within my rights and provoked from the second he got out of his truck.

Had he came over and asked me what we were doing ( Again, Very Obvious)m without the "junk" comment and phony authority bravado I wouldn't have reacted in that manner.

He was out of line, and he knew it, because I never seen him again, and never heard a word about it.


Peace

Eric

 

[Normark]

Hello All..

I Apologize for the language and hope that no one was offended..

We're all here for the same reasons, however I can be a bull in a China shop at times and I realize that. My intentions are good and for the people though.

Moderator.. Thanks for cleaning up my mess..

Peace

Eric

 

[dianaross77]

The lovely lady who started this thread asked for help. She didn't ask for people to argue about what anarchy is and the definition of a noxious weed. These posts and conversations are interesting but somewhat off topic. I just don't think it's fair to her. You should however consider opening a thread to discuss your views of how little authority we have over our own land and properties and how we can change it or what you've done personally. I happen to agree 100%! I would love to read it. I really don't mean to offend anyone at all. Those of us who are local have a vested interest in the outcome of these cases and I would hate for the OP to not come back to update us or for her thread to get locked.

 

[Normark]

Diana...

Agreed...

My intention was to give an alternative defense, definitely not to argue. We are all in the same boat.

Thanks
Eric

 

[dretd]

Quote:
Please let us know how your meeting went!

 

[Buff Hooligans]

If you got chickens without checking what the local laws are, then it's a shame that you got them and are now attached to them. Laws are laws, no matter all the emotional reasoning why they shouldn't apply to your situation. I'm sure there's some other animals that could help your son as well as chickens do.

 

[Normark]

Hello Buff

"" Laws are laws, no matter all the emotional reasoning why they shouldn't apply to your situation. ""

Laws are laws, however laws can also be changed.

Some laws Are there for good reason. Some laws Were there for good reason.

This can be won if you attack the law in the right way..

The proof of this is in cities were the law has been changed.. City council didn't change them to appease the chickens or out of the goodness of their hearts. City council changed them because they realized they don't have a foot to stand on. They simply had no choice, nor good reason once they were backed into a corner without lawful foothold.

This is a minor thing dealing with local city councils. How hard can it be ?

I think a good idea would be for a committee of us chicken lovers right here on BYC set out and forge our own set of bylaws and Mission statement . These bylaws can be very simple and the same across the board. It will become our Mantra.

These bylaws and statement can be used with city councils to help explain who we are, what we are, why we are and importantly what we are not. This could also become something city council will adopt.

One thing that should be remembered, I'm sure you've all seen it, is the Speculation that is involved with chickens, and then being compared to feral cats, dogs that aren't cleaned up after, and the ever popular " Next, they'll want, Cows, Horses and Manatees"

This is ALL wild speculation which we do not deserve, not can it be used in the decision making process...



The larger and more organized we become, the stronger we become, the louder our voice, the harder it is for city councils to brush us off.


The question is.... Just how Important is this issue to you, and how far are you willing to go to protect your Creator given Rights?

Peace
Eric