Need help to Socialize new scared/timied puppies.

[xchairity_casex]

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Oh yes that was the breeder...I hate the smell of straw. They have had good baths and have dog beds in their crate.

We did have a set back and am on my way out to buy a new crate to part them. This morning the pups attacked each other for no reason!

They were standing up on the side of their crates waiting for me to bring food and water and one of them reaches over and playful nips the other on the cheek as I have seen them do before. The next thing I know they are fighting like Big dogs to the death. I yelled out at them and they didn't stop I had to open the cage and reach in and pull them apart they still didn't want to let go. One puppies ear is bleeding and the other has a nip on the chest. As soon as I got them apart its like they knew what they did was wrong their heads went down. I told them bad dogs bad dogs! I have cleaned them up and now one is in the washroom with a baby gate up and the other in the crate.

I was lost for words for why they did this....

i used to have a pack (12) of english fox hounds. their social order works the same. a pack of hounds is like a pack of wolves or a flock of chickens. there is a social order. sometimes something tips that order or a dominate decides a lower pack member needs a reminder. they will fight, one will win one will lose and life goes on. they will not kill or seriously injure each other. only time you have to worry about that is when a jip is in heat and the dominate male gets challenged for breeding rights or introducing new members to a established pack. hounds are very social and family oriented. the pups need lots of attention but you also need to be firm with them. a good start is to every now and then randomly just push one over on it's back and grab it by the throat and give a gentle squeeze. not enough to choke it, but enough that it thinks you could. hold them like that till they get still, then release them and play with them for a few minutes. in doggie it says "i'm bigger and badder than you, i'm top dog, just thought you needed to be reminded of that but we are ok. i'm not mad at you." it solves a lot of problems before they start. it sounds strange but doing this could actually make the pups like you more. since the pack is a family, you mess with one you mess with all. to them once you become a member it is the responsibility of the strong to defend the weaker members. it makes them feel safer now that mommy is gone. this has worked for me in the past.

oh lord please pelase PLEASE DO NOT TRY THIS! this may be fine for dogs who are not nervous or timid but for a shy sensative puppy this can very easily turn them away from you for ever!! alot of people take the dominace "roll" wrong and donot do it properly its not about pysical hold its about mental hold a dog WILL NOT PHYSICALLY hold another dog with its teeth! NEVER hold a dog down this can and will make them nervous about human handling and also could cuase dogs to bite people watch the dog whisper and thinking they have to make there dogs lie down and to make them lie down like cesar they need to hold them NO you dont not even cesar millan HOLDS a dog down he may while the dog is trying to attack him but not when the dog is calm and relaxed and theres a reson he doesnt becuase it makes a dog nervous. please if you havent done research on dog behavior donot give adivce though it may have worked for you this is a dangerous excersize to try for many people becuase they donot fully understand how to approch the dog and if your not approaching the dog correctly with the right energy or body laungue you could cause an attack.
im not trying to say what you did was wrong but this is just a dangerous thing for those who do not understand dog behavior better to do and really it is unnecessary. yes dogs have sociel orders in groups,yes dogs show dominace toward eachother BUT its most commenly shown in other ways it is very unlikly you would go to a dog park and see a new dog walk in and start throwing other dogs on the ground if a dog where to do that he would mostly likely get himself attacked this is only used when two dogs are really battling out who is higher up when a dog is really "pushy" most commonly dogs show who is who by the way they approach another dog the body laungue used when they approach and how they react when aother dog pushes back.

 

[SourRoses]

I dont believe the "Alpha Roll" causes dogs to attack. If a dog has been abused they may feel threatened by this, possibly, and snap back... but the roll is a VERY common action in packs and the Beagles here do not have a long enough history for it to be a problem. Many of our dogs... and especially our alpha, Rosie, have done this often in the past... and when she had her pups she would frequently grab their necks and roll them over when they were being naughty. She never hurt one and it is important that they learn proper behavior early on from mama... they all grew up to be well scocialized, outgoing puppies, better than the pups we bought from outside breeders.

I believe that the main discrepancy between different human methods of approaching issues of dominance, is that every trainer/experienced person is coming from a different background with regard to breeds. Every breed is so different from the others, they have different pack dynamics, and people can only learn from what they have observed and worked with. A person used to training sheperds may approach teaching a poodle in entirely the wrong manner, and one well versed in retrievers may not know what to do with a terrier.
Probably best you try to find a website or forum dealing specifically with Beagles...

 

[xchairity_casex]

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actually theres been alot of people who have gotten bitten when they tried rolling there dogs over google it thats peoples biggest things with cesar millan is they have tried mimicking him and ended up getting attacked. dogs most commonly throw other to the ground in play and with most dogs there is no fight becuase usually one dog gives up and rolls over it doesnt have to be thrown to the ground. ive been training dogs since i was 13 not jsut one breed many ive been researching dog behavior for eyars reading up on the newest studies,watching dogs in groups and watching videos of dogs in groups im not going to say im expert im still learning but there are osme things i do know and i do know that hands on with nervous dogs will set there progress back by about a month if they even recover from it. people are not dogs we cannot do everything a dog does becuase theres more to an alpha roll then just throwin your dog down and holding them there theres subtle signs involved theres energy involved that if we donot mimick perfectly we are confusing our dogs and making them nervous,upset,aggressive ect. and im not saying alpha rolls are not real or that dogs donot do them yes they do use them but not as often as people like to bellieve.

 

[Break an Egg]

Buy some baby food any meat variety, and put it on your fingers, let the pups lick it off, and pretty soon with patience, they will trust you a little at a time.

 

[Jamie_Dog_Trainer]

Don't roll a dog, especially an already afraid or nervous dog. This can and does cause serious bites and mistrust. And for more accurate: most often a dog will not roll another dog. What IS going on is a submissive dog will roll itself over as an indication of "giving up" and appeasment of the more dominant dog. You don't see one dog pushing another dog to the ground very often. Rolling a dog forcefully isn't natural, especially since we are not dogs.