Neighbors are feeding wild raccoons, now what.

[GranderTheGander]

But that is EXACTLY the point. There is a HUGE difference between a pet and a wild/feral animal. I'm all about pet dogs ... but if you have a pack of feral dogs running around, they need to be put down. Farm pigs, great. Some people even have pet pigs, great. Feral pigs ... not great. Pet rat, great. Feed it, shelter it, hold it. Don't feed wild rats and if they enter the zone of your house/coop, kill them.

Would you consider a person with a pet rat a hypocrite for killing wild rats that are attacking their chickens or getting into their house?

Feeding wild raccoons is dangerous to them and to people. It's not at all hypocritical to treat wild animals and pet animals differently.

Personally, I let the cats handle any rodents that come out of the canal and go under the house. The cats do the best job of natural rodent control. They don't even have to kill them. They just have to stalk them. I also don't think domesticated animals have a superior right to exist over wild animals. It's up to the pet owner to keep the pets safe.

Lots of you here are obviously in rural areas and have such things as feral dogs packs, whereas some of us are in more developed areas with less threats. I'm surrounded by water and have been observing raccoons for decades. I don't see them as threatening as some of you obviously do.

For example, they're not as big a threat as bears, alligators, coyotes, etc. Nor can they squeeze into small spaces like rodents and get into houses, although they can get into attics with vents or chimneys Once again, though, the home owner needs to prevent that from happening before it happens. The raccoons here co-exist with cats, opossums and red foxes, and are terrified of dogs. Some of them are also obviously terrified of Canadian geese that are on land at night.

Finally, I simply do not understand how someone with a domestic or domesticated bird or animal can have no concerns for it's wild counterpart. I will never understand that.

 

[GranderTheGander]

Clearly, you have no idea just how much is involved in keeping a captive wild animal. In my state (as in most where its even legal at all) you must have a state issued permit renewed every two years. There are specific housing requirements and emergency protocol planning requirements; inspections may be made at any time and if anything is found unsatisfactory you can loose your license and your pet. There are vaccinations (first of all finding a vet who will even see them), enrichment, and a proper varied diet that must be provided as well. (Not to mention the obvious 15-20 year commitment to everything stated above.)

This is a FAR cry from feeding raccoons in your backyard.
I love raccoons, but I do not feed wild ones because human dependence is bad for them and me. And, yes, problem predators must be treated as such for the good of all of the animals under my care.

I understand you need a license and such to keep a raccoon in places where it is allowed, but certainly did not know the specific details. Why are raccoons, which are wild animals, allowed to be kept as pets in the first place, though? I'm not talking about rehabbed ones that can't be released, but ones that are sold as babies in pet stores? Also, pet raccoons don't have to hunt for food like wild raccoons. So, it's okay to kill wild raccoons for eating, but not pet raccoons because they are being fed by people?

 

[Gizabelle]

OP, so sorry for the hijack... last response, I swear

I understand you need a license and such to keep a raccoon in places where it is allowed, but certainly did not know the specific details. Why are raccoons, which are wild animals, allowed to be kept as pets in the first place, though?

Couldn't say. But I can tell you that it takes an awful lot. And if the same requirements were in place for domesticated animals, there would be considerably less neglect.

I'm not talking about rehabbed ones that can't be released, but ones that are sold as babies in pet stores?

I've never seen one in a pet store (thank God). On the whole, I would not recommend them; most people would not be up to the task of keeping one.

Also, pet raccoons don't have to hunt for food like wild raccoons. So, it's okay to kill wild raccoons for eating, but not pet raccoons because they are being fed by people?

I don't like killing any wild animal. Just as you said: they are only trying to survive, its really not their fault. IMO, predator proofing your set up is the only way to truly live harmoniously with wildlife.
But, as far as the difference between captive/wild. I know for a fact that my captive animal does not have distemper, rabies, or parasites. A wild raccoon may very well be bringing that into my yard. Providing a reliable food source of any kind (whether its leaving out cat food or not not securing your coop) will keep them coming back (and potentially bringing disease/parasites with them). They are opportunistic feeders and are very smart, they will remember.
For me, killing is always a last resort. Lets say I was dealing with a dog that kept coming onto my property and killing animals: of course I would try all other avenues before shooting, but if I just kept loosing animals and that was the only way to protect what was left, then that's that. At that point a predator is a predator, raccoons included.

 

[neo71665]

My post wasn't intended to argue about animal rights. All animals have to eat to survive, including many times eating other animals. That is how nature is set up. There is a food chain. Unlike humans, animals aren't sitting around thinking about what to eat or not eat. Their choices are limited. But it wasn't my intention to discuss that matter, either.

I just felt is was hypocritical for someone with pet raccoons to show so little concern about the lives of wild raccoons, as if their lives mean nothing, whereas her pets' lives obviously mean something. Plus, the owner is feeding raccoons, sheltering them and holding them, all the while condemning someone who might be feeding them. Just sounds hypocritical to me.

First off I'm a wildlife rehaber. My pets I ended up with because somebody got them after the momma was killed and raised them to the point they are imprinted on humans but they were too big and causing damage to their house. They didn't know what they were doing. It's also very legal for me to have them. Matter of fact in my state anybody is legal to have any 2 animals not breeding you can catch that are not protected. Means I can (and have had) all kinds of wild animals growing up. Just part of growing up out in the country around here to have goofy pets. I'll one up ya trigger and tell you growing up we bred, trained, and hunted championship coon hounds. I had a pet coon back then also.

No I don't care if a wild animal is destroying property it needs to be dealt with. I don't care if it's a mouse or somebody's dog. As livestock owners we have the right to protect our property. It doesn't matter if some idiot is letting their dog run loose or they are feeding wildlife and bringing them in the neighborhood. Both are illegal. The issue with wildlife they are training them to come in for food and the animals will keep on even after the food stops. They have already attacked once and will keep on. Nobody is doing anything wrong protecting their animals only the morons that think it was cute to feed wildlife.

 

[GranderTheGander]

OP, so sorry for the hijack... last response, I swear

Couldn't say. But I can tell you that it takes an awful lot. And if the same requirements were in place for domesticated animals, there would be considerably less neglect.

I've never seen one in a pet store (thank God). On the whole, I would not recommend them; most people would not be up to the task of keeping one.

I don't like killing any wild animal. Just as you said: they are only trying to survive, its really not their fault. IMO, predator proofing your set up is the only way to truly live harmoniously with wildlife.
But, as far as the difference between captive/wild. I know for a fact that my captive animal does not have distemper, rabies, or parasites. A wild raccoon may very well be bringing that into my yard. Providing a reliable food source of any kind (whether its leaving out cat food or not not securing your coop) will keep them coming back (and potentially bringing disease/parasites with them). They are opportunistic feeders and are very smart, they will remember.
For me, killing is always a last resort. Lets say I was dealing with a dog that kept coming onto my property and killing animals: of course I would try all other avenues before shooting, but if I just kept loosing animals and that was the only way to protect what was left, then that's that. At that point a predator is a predator, raccoons included.

Thanks for your sincere replies. That's what forums are for--talking to one another about topics that concern us.

P.S. When I first went online in the early 2000s, I know I once read about raccoons being sold in pet stores in Minnesota, which I thought was utterly unbelievable!

 

[McChooky]

Predators are forced to hunt elsewhere when you've got predator proof coops and runs.
If you choose not to protect them be prepared to suffer the consequences because even if you trap or kill predators regularly there will always be some that will still die. I refuse to partake in the senseless killing of wildlife (or my flock)

 

[GranderTheGander]

First off I'm a wildlife rehaber. My pets I ended up with because somebody got them after the momma was killed and raised them to the point they are imprinted on humans but they were too big and causing damage to their house. They didn't know what they were doing. It's also very legal for me to have them. Matter of fact in my state anybody is legal to have any 2 animals not breeding you can catch that are not protected. Means I can (and have had) all kinds of wild animals growing up. Just part of growing up out in the country around here to have goofy pets. I'll one up ya trigger and tell you growing up we bred, trained, and hunted championship coon hounds. I had a pet coon back then also.

No I don't care if a wild animal is destroying property it needs to be dealt with. I don't care if it's a mouse or somebody's dog. As livestock owners we have the right to protect our property. It doesn't matter if some idiot is letting their dog run loose or they are feeding wildlife and bringing them in the neighborhood. Both are illegal. The issue with wildlife they are training them to come in for food and the animals will keep on even after the food stops. They have already attacked once and will keep on. Nobody is doing anything wrong protecting their animals only the morons that think it was cute to feed wildlife.

Yes, I assumed you lived in a state where you could keep wildlife as pets. In my state, you absolutely cannot, although people possibly did back in the 1950s and earlier. Concerning food sources, keep in mind the presence of chickens and domestic ducks can certainly bring predators into areas where they never were seen before the birds arrived. Although I think a lot of night predators are places where people never see them, and never realize they are there, because they are "day people". I'm a born owl, so I am often out at night watching other night creatures. I remember reading an article years ago where they were shocked to discover coyotes were living in Chicago under bridges. At the time, no one ever imagined coyotes existed in Chicago.

 

[neo71665]

Yes, I assumed you lived in a state where you could keep wildlife as pets. In my state, you absolutely cannot, although people possibly did back in the 1950s and earlier. Concerning food sources, keep in mind the presence of chickens and domestic ducks can certainly bring predators into areas where they never were seen before the birds arrived. Although I think a lot of night predators are places where people never see them, and never realize they are there, because they are "day people". I'm a born owl, so I am often out at night watching other night creatures. I remember reading an article years ago where they were shocked to discover coyotes were living in Chicago under bridges. At the time, no one ever imagined coyotes existed in Chicago.

Still don't see how you living in a city you can think you can tell me what I can and can;t do what I can legally or morally do. Next time you want to attack somebody you might want to learn something first. Learn if they were attacked when they were 9 in their barn a by feeding them, had to have rabies shots for months. 30 years later still have the scars from being attacked. Look up what that is like. Learn if they done the training because they love wildlife to rehab them. The time and money to get permits to do that. Wild animals are and should be wild until some idiot moron tries to tame them by feeding them in a neighborhood. I love my girls for a reason, I have zero remorse about protecting my livestock. I also trap and hunt animals. One thing I will say unless you meet somebody never judge them based on what you know. This hick has lived in san diego for 5 years and new york city for 2. There is a reason why I moved back to the sticks of arkansas. I don't talk bad about yall that choose to live where yall live.

I suggest next time before you just try to openly attack somebody over something you have no clue just PM them and learn.

 

[GranderTheGander]

Still don't see how you living in a city you can think you can tell me what I can and can;t do what I can legally or morally do. Next time you want to attack somebody you might want to learn something first. Learn if they were attacked when they were 9 in their barn a by feeding them, had to have rabies shots for months. 30 years later still have the scars from being attacked. Look up what that is like. Learn if they done the training because they love wildlife to rehab them. The time and money to get permits to do that. Wild animals are and should be wild until some idiot moron tries to tame them by feeding them in a neighborhood. I love my girls for a reason, I have zero remorse about protecting my livestock. I also trap and hunt animals. One thing I will say unless you meet somebody never judge them based on what you know. This hick has lived in san diego for 5 years and new york city for 2. There is a reason why I moved back to the sticks of arkansas. I don't talk bad about yall that choose to live where yall live.

I suggest next time before you just try to openly attack somebody over something you have no clue just PM them and learn.

Wrong person. I don't tell others what to think, or how to live, or how to post in public forums. Just as I ignore advice from those who tell me what to think, or how to live, or how to post in public forums. We all judge. You are judging me in your last post, in case you didn't notice. We have to judge others, or the actions and words of others, to make good decisions about life. Those who pride themselves on not judging others often make bad decisions about who to believe and trust, and who not to believe and trust.

My first post wasn't actually intended to personally attack you, but to express dismay about how many individuals seem to think there is a hierarchy for animals where pets are always on the top, simply because they are owned and loved my humans. Your avatar shows a pet raccoon, while your post showed little concern about wild raccoons rightfully searching for food.

Moreover, I was not "talking bad" at all about rural life, but pointing out we all need to keep in mind here the differences between life in one place or another. Some people here are challenged by the visits of animals like bears, mountain lions, coyotes, etc., while I personally know others who feel they are being extremely taxed by wildlife because there are moles and squirrels in their yards! I have no problem at all with others here describing their lives or expressing opposing views. Plus, I don't see those who don't think or live like I do as "clueless". It's you who seems to think so.

 

[Sapphire Sebright]

Finally, I simply do not understand how someone with a domestic or domesticated bird or animal can have no concerns for it's wild counterpart. I will never understand that.

The pet is under control.
The wild animal is not.

It comes down to how an animal is behaving: If it's leaving my livestock alone, then I'll leave it alone; if it's causing trouble, then I'll dispose of it.

It's not necessarily that a person cares for the domesticated animal and not for its wild counterpart; it's that we, as people, want to protect out property from threats, and if that includes a feral version of sweet little Rocket the Raccoon, then so be it. Rocket isn't causing trouble, but his cousin is, and so that cousin gets the short end of the stick (boom stick, made of steel) despite being of the same species.

Think of it as dealing with humans: You care about them all, in a way, but if one is causing trouble by harming or stealing, then you incarcerate that individual -- especially if it involves your family, who you value over most, if not all, other humans due to emotional bonding and connection.
Offing a raccoon that's harming a livestock owner's animals is kind of like incarcerating a criminal, only it's permanently putting them in a place where they're rendered harmless, and they're sent on from this life much faster.

Last little tidbit: Someone I know owns a ferret, which is, as far as chicken-killing tendencies go, basically a weasel. He's a cute little thing, and I like him, but I wouldn't hesitate to kill off a weasel that went after my birds, even though I may like one of their relatives.

I'll get off of my soapbox now. I hope that you can figure something out soon, OP; good luck, and may God bless you in life and your feathered-friend-keeping experiences.
(Also, sorry if this is a bit nonsensical; it's rather late over here, so I'm a tad bit tired and may be fuzzed in the brain).