Neighbor's dog killed hen - how to stay on good terms?

[Optiker]

Long post...sorry!
We're on about 4 acres in a rural area, in an "association" of 26 properties of 3 to 5 acres. My place is on the boundary with another such association. We're zoned light ag, with many folks having horses, cows, alpacas, many just country-wannabes. We just have chickens and way too many gophers.
A pack of dogs was roaming and being fed by the nearest neighbor of the adjacent association. Besides messing in the yard, they were terrorizing our dog and cat, and, if you can believe it, one of them "stole" a 20 ft. length of 4" PVC irrigation pipe - dragged it towards his home, almost off the property so we did recover it. I saw Where the dog went home and confronted the owner. When I asked if she owned a big yellow lad, she got this funny look ans said, "yeeessss...and what did he do now?"
I called the sheriff about the pack (didn't mention the lab). The deputy said that the law was such that if I or any of my animals were even intimidated by a dog, shoot it, leave it lay, call the sheriff and they'd take it from there. Not long after the sheriff went by and talked to the neighbor, the pack of dogs dispersed and we never had the problem again. That neighbor has moved away. However...
Same association, different "neighbor"! We had a small"5'x7' pen in the back yard to get our ten six-week old australorps out for a little fresh air each day. Their dog dug under the fence killed all ten and I saw him drag one home. I confronted the owners and they admitted he'd brought a small black chicken home and apologized that they had him in a kennel but couldn't keep him in since he dug out every time. The offered to pay for the loss, but I declined and told them what the deputy had told me, and that the next time I saw them around my chickens, I'd shoot him. There IS a leash law in this county.
Fast forward a year or so... We were free ranging our hens (from the flock that replaced the dog-killed ones) and were away for the weekend. Our (good) neighbor was letting them out in the morning and locking them in at night. Apparently a hawk got one and badly injured it. The neighbor did all she could and saved it. We nursed it along, but eventually it stopped eating and wasted away till we finally put her down.
Shortly after we lost another to an unknown predator, but saw where the trail of feathers were headed. Within a week, we saw the remains of chickens - not ours - in our back field. Coincidentally, our field is nearest the two dog-owner neighbors in the adjacent association mentioned above.
Not long after that, I was sitting in the living room with windows facing my barn when I saw another (good) neighbor racing down my driveway on his 4-wheeler. He went straight to my barn where my coop and pen are and by the time I got halfway there, a dog ran by me. I guessed at what happened and went for my .410 shotgun. I took a long shot and missed, but watched where the dog went...toward the 10-chicken killer dog home.
What had happened was my neighbor was working outside and heard my four (down from six) hens making a ruckus, and came to investigate. He saw the dog in the pen attacking the hens and ran it off. It had dug and forced its way under the fence of the pen.
I called the sheriff and they came right out. They took pics of the place where the dog dug under and of the injured hens. I took them to the back yard and pointed out the location of where I saw the dog headed and told them the past history as above, and pointed out where my (good) neighbor lives who probably saved my flock.
They went over and confronted the dog owner, took a picture of the dog and showed it to my (good) neighbor who confirmed that was the dog. The owner was cited for "dangerous dog" and told the choice was to pay the fine (don't know how much) or go to court and contest it. But, the evidence was pretty convincing with the pictures and a witness. I don't know how it was resolved.
We nursed the worst injured hen for weeks, but she quit eating and got weaker till we finally put her down.
We haven't been free ranging them since unless we are working outside and can keep an eye on them.
A final important point...when the deputies were here for the last incident, I told them what the deputy had told me the first time with the dog pack. This deputy confirmed that, but said to make sure the dog was on my property when I shot it. There were cases where the dog owner sued on the basis that the dog was not on the shooter's property and that the shooter was not protecting his animals, but shooting the dog in revenge, and won the case!
Don't know what it's like where you are, but that's the way it is here (SE Washington State).
Optiker

 

[Member 482121]

If your neighbor is a good neighbor, he/she would have offered to pay for the hen and would restrain his/her dog. If he/she has not done it yet, he/she is someone not worthy of your friendship. I had a neighbor like that once, in Alaska. Her dog bit my daughter on our property. I threatened to sue her and called animal control. The dog was taken away and quarantined, at the owner's expense. Besides, the owner was trying to get her dog trained and certified as a rescue dog, and the dog was not accepted by the rescue dog organization because of this incident. When we lived in Montana, a neighbor had a dog that would roam knocking down garbage cans and strewing garbage all over people's lawns. Furthermore, he killed every cat he could catch. The owner completely ignored his neighbors' complaints. Once his dog went after our cat, but she was quick enough and hid under our parked car. I had put up with the garbage problem for months, but his trying to kill my cat was the straw that broke the camel's back. I loaded a .22 rifle with a .22 shotshell loaded with very small birdshot and leaned the rifle by the door. A few days later the dog returned, and my wife let him have the whole pattern in his side. Obviously the tiny pellets stopped in the skin, without causing serious damage. The dog ran back home yelping... and the next day the owner began to build a fence around his yard. While the fence was being built, the dog, now sporting a white bandage (I wonder how much the vet charged for removing a couple of dozens of pellets from the dog's hide), remained chained to a post. I don't know the laws and regs in your neck of the woods. And, of course, things have changed since the late 70's (when my wife peppered that dog). Think before you act. But remember that you have the right to free range your chickens, while your neighbor does not have the right to allow the dog onto your property.

 

[Howard E]

I read about all the drama that takes place with these dogs and shake my head wonder. Think about it from the dogs perspective. With no deterrent on your part other than hoping for good will and forbearance on the part of the dog, what is to stop him from a good romp at your place. Hunting and killing and having a ball? A gun if you have one and you are on duty and ready to take him out, but most stories start with the discovery of the carnage......... past tense.

On the other hand, imagine a chicken yard surrounded by a fence hot enough to fry his face off. He comes over to play, hits that, lets out a yelp and heads for the horizon. A smart dog......and these are smart dogs.......will almost refuse to go near it again.

One of my first experiences with an electric fence was well over 50 years ago. My dad and a hired hand put up a single wire fence for cattle. A few days later, the hired hand got to thinking it would be fun to trick the dog into touching it. So he tried and the dog was having none of it. The dog had already touched it. So the hired hand catches him, walks him over to it and the dog starts struggling. So the hired hand stands him up on his back legs and walks him over to make him touch it. They both let out a yelp and the dog ran one way and the hired hand another. As dad tells the story, the dog was a whole lot smarter than the hired hand.

So the fence takes all the fun out of it for the dog. The risk of getting popped by that changes everything in your favor. Rather than seek you out, they will avoid you. And no drama at all.

 

[Optiker]

Herman...clearly proven to NOT be a good neighbor. They DID offer to pay for the first ten pullets, but I declined, not wanting them to think a few bucks would make it all well. I thought it might be more motivating for them to know the dog could legally be shot if it happened again. I'd have asked for the original cost of the birds (about $50 since less than 15 cost $20 more for special shipping), plus the cost of feed ($50 is a conservative estimate for the custom blend we use) through those six weeks, plus the cost of the eggs for the six extra weeks we'd have to wait for the new flock to begin laying, and maybe throw in a bit for the work of raising them to six weeks. Having recently bought cage-free, no antibiotics, organic, etc. eggs in the store, they go for around $4/dozen - and our eggs are far better! Let's see...10 pullets, average maybe 2 eggs in three days per pullet, for 42 days (6 weeks) is 28 eggs per pullet, or 280 eggs (23+ dozen), amounting to close to $100 just for lost egg production. Probably wouldn't get away with charging for punitive or emotional pain and anguish! Total bill would come to a couple hundred dollars, without the labor. Incidentally, someplace I read when comparing breeds that black australorps average over 300 eggs/year...might have been Cackle Hatchery where I bought them - in their paper catalog, not onlne.

Howard...Besides the fact that our county has a leash law, even in the rural areas of the county, I do not agree with you. If an animal comes on my property - the chickens were never off my property - I have a right to defend my animals and property. Maybe I should have offered to build a dog-proof fence at his cost! Two other adjacent neighbors in our own association who have dogs, took it on themselves to fence their property. One declined when I offered to share the cost, and the other just did it and he cost was never mentioned.

Optiker

 

[Howard E]

I have no quarrel with someone shooting a dog if it is on their property causing harm. I have done so. But that generally has consequences downstream with neighbors and relations and I've found it a better option to be pro-active on my part and put up an electric fence that solves the problem since I know with almost 100% certainty that dogs will be running around out here. To date, I could have shot 5 dogs in the past year alone. That is just the ones I know about. To date, I have not shot any dogs or predators and all my birds are still alive.

If there is a mean streak in me, I must admit it is funny as can be to see a would be chicken killing dog tangle with that fence and getting the snocker knocked out of him and watching him disappear into the distance from whence he came. And looking pretty humble (and very much alive) while doing it. In the end, that solves the problem of what to do with the neighbor's dog. Teach him a lesson he won't forget and from then on he leaves you alone.

 

[Chandra Prater]

Not to sound glib but, if they aren't chicken people, they don't know how much a chicken really costs. Include your time in the price you pitch to them. I would suggest writing a note. That way, you can really contemplate what you're saying instead of letting emotions control the conversation. Plus, if your neighbor says something stupid, you won't get pissed off about it immediately.

 

[Optiker]

Howard...In general, I agree. Other than taking a shot at that one, and at a few shots with BB gun and slingshot, I haven't hit one yet!

A hot fence would be a great solution, but I'm not sure what the legal implications might be. Across that same fence, the neighbor's grandkids play...close to the fence. If one of them got popped...don't want to go there. My own grandson (12 years old) got it across the eyebrows last spring when leaning over a hot wire to look at some calves. It sat him down right quick. Of course, I'd never think of suing, but folks over in that other association haven't proven to be very neighborly in other ways.

Field fencing would be tough with one long fenceline solid enough with sagebrush to prevent attaching field fence to the existing 3-wire barbed wire fence, but not solid against dogs. However, it might be possible - though pretty difficult - to run a hotwire through at dog height. I'll think about that.

Chandra...I like the way you think!

Optiker

 

[speckledhen]

I have such a hard time with this type of thread. One, the neighbor does not care if he/she is on good terms with YOU so why should you care about keeping a so-called good relationship that truly does not exist in the first place?

The first shot was fired by the dog owner allowing the dog to run loose. You did nothing to endanger a good neighbor relationship, nothing.

Invisible fences are not all that useful with many dogs. For example, this scenario with my neighbor's dog went on over time until it came to a head. Invisible fence was completely useless. https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/trapped-a-neighbors-dog-on-my-deck-got-an-earful.385404/

We fenced over 2 acres of our land, a 330 ft roll of livestock fencing and u-posts, as we could afford to do it, over several months, on a military pension. It can be done, sure, and I advise every chicken owner to make the effort, but even then, dogs can dig under or climb over-we've had both happen. That is then when you have to make sure he can't do it again, IMO.

Frankly, I'm just not happy to have neighbors at all, so if one decides to be a bad neighbor, I feel no remorse about doing what's necessary to protect my investment. My birds are not easily replaced. I have two heritage lines of Barred Plymouth Rocks plus a breeding group of Partridge/Blue Partridge Brahmas and cannot just go get a cheap chick or two to replace them with. So, if I am legally keeping my livestock and they are on my property, I have absolutely no problem blasting a dog away, love dogs though I do. And the Georgia dog laws back me up on this; the county ordinance mirrors the state one. The moment a dog comes onto my land and goes after my chickens, heck, even comes across my land without being on a leash or with his owner, even if he doesn't hurt a chicken, he is a predator in need of elimination, IMO. I don't want dogs on my property unless they are my own dogs.

I'm not sure why people are so interested in not getting on a neighbor's bad side by insisting they keep their predators at home. The neighbors are already on my bad side by allowing them to roam and if the dog does not come home, them's the breaks, as they say. I am so over this issue, I really am. I have a zero tolerance policy about dogs.

I have a perimeter fence around 2 of my acres that includes the house, barn and other outbuildings, but dogs have climbed the fence on rare occasions. There is also a pen around the barn itself, but my birds must get out of that to get to the rich grass out in the back areas around the compost pile and the gardens. So, they do free range, but within a 2+ acre livestock fence.


ETA: I would not decline money. In fact, I'd soak them for a lot more than some cheap hatchery birds are worth. I'd have to with mine. They'd pay handsomely.

 

[MrDeMaistre]

They're responsible for their dog, period. What to do is their problem. When this sort of thing happens, I point these facts out directly and unequivocally. That usually takes care of it. I only had to escalate one time. When the dog showed up, a nice friendly dog, by the way, aside from the chicken-killing business which, I do understand, is just a dog being a dog: I have six dogs myself, and have lost a few birds to our own, particularly when we had rescue greyhounds, who are hell on chickens and not exactly Einsteins, if you know what I mean.)... anyway, I walked up behind him and fired my 12-gauge into the ground, right alongside him. He ran off screaming and never came back. Simple but effective: shotguns are REALLY loud, for those who do not know: REALLY loud. The dog had started eyeing my sheep too, so something had to be done. If you've ever seen what a dog will do to a sheep, you know what I'm talking about.

 

[The Moonshiner]

Sorry for your loss. Ive been there more than a couple times myself.
Ive noticed your thread as well as a couple more here lately and the theme of staying in good terms with a neighbor whos dog has killed your bird/birds.
Heres my thought on that. I can care less how the relationship ends up and will not put any time or effort into the thought.
Like I said ive been through this at least a dozen times over the many many years ive had birds.
The way I see it is that they are the ones responsible for whats going on. Now if we had a good relationship before then most times with some time it went back to how it was. If they had a good relationship with you then they are usually the ones to go out of their way to fix things. They were in the wrong they need to take the first steps and most good people do.
Now then theres the ones that dont care. Dont think a chicken is worth fussing over. All those types. They dont try to make amends and for me soo what? So we wont be friends. But hey those type are not the kind that i go out of my way to be friends with any way. Good people do the right things other people not so much and in the end it really wont matter how you approach them they are going to handle their end like they do. Your appraoch wont change that.

Also as for replacing your hen. Everywhere ive ever lived you get the replacement value of your hen. If you had a common breed that is always on CL for $10 or $12. Then thats what you get. If its a rare breed and youd have to buy one out of state and have it shipped then thats what you get. The price of the hen and the shipping to get it to you.
Its like getting your car damaged. You have to get the info and present it so its like get body work estimates. You can find 10 ads and bring in the highest 2 or 3. If its a rare breed then the do you best to show they are hard to get and shipping one in is the only way you can replace it. Also like body work estimates if you get some crazy high prices then you better be ready to argue you case or they will think your being money hungry and give you what they think its worth which is usually the $10.
If you have a one year old hen thats what they will pay to replace. They dont give out what it costs to raise one up or the eggs your out or pain and suffering or feed or any of those things.
You cant recoup time and cost because theyre getting the value of the same age as the bird you lost therefor there wont be any of those costs or losses because you wont have to raise a new chick.