New Breeds, Genetics and Showing section coming soon

[speckledhen]

Exactly. It''s only an organization of material, not some exclusive club with a "Keep Out" sign.

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

I'm going to be very careful not to offend and I am going to reply only one time because at the present time I am beginning to feel a bit unwelcome based upon the posts regarding my comments (and others) concerning this move and I am beginning to question my association with BYC and/or the need to continue my association here.

FIRST, I have always tried to respond with kindness and respect to any post on a thread to which I subscribe. I believe those that know me can attest to that. Whether or not the guidelines for this thread changes or not, the manner in which I, personally, respond to posts will not change. If I might overstep my bounds and speak for Matt and Bill, I would expect that they feel quite the same way.

SECONDLY, if the intent of this thread change is to encourage the participation of breeders/exhibitors WHO ARE NOT CURRENTLY BYC MEMBERS, we, the entire BYC community, myself included, must accept the fact that "in perception lies reality". One doesn't have to look far to see that most serious breeders view BYC as a community of "chicken huggers" and these individuals do not take BYC seriously. Not for the point of excluding anyone, but my point(s) regarding "casual poultry owners" or "pet owners" were not meant to be derogatory in any way, but moreso to identify the fact that there are several groups of people raising chickens....those that do it for enjoyment only and those that breed more seriously. I'll liken this to something I am very familiar with....youth baseball. In youth baseball there are several groups as well....those that play "Little League/Dizzy Dean, etc" simply to learn the sport and for enjoyment and those that play "Travel/Competitive" baseball who's intent is to GROW in their ability...neither is meant to be derogatory not segregational, there are simply 2 groups with differing objectives and the manner in which they engage in the sport is different. My point is that if we don't change for the purpose of encouraging the participation of those you wish to engage, we will make no progress, and the members you have will be the members you continue to have. Exhibition poultry folks are definitely a close knit, cliquish, sometimes snobbish, "good ole boy" group....we can either accept that and adapt as best we can to encourage their participation, or acknowledge the likelihood we will never get them to assist. Remember, "a tiger doesn't change his stripes"

FINALLY, I am quite disturbed to see that comments were allowed to continue, even after Matt publicly apologized for his comments and choice of words; and I quote Matt... "Wasn't intended to be insulting, ESPECIALLY to newcomers, so my apologies. I love helping newcomers along their journey into true poultry and sharing the limited amount of knowledge and experience I have." I believe to continue to berate him after a heartfelt, PUBLIC apology, is distasteful

Perhaps we all could have chosen a better words....but at least from me personally, it was not intended to be derogatory, belittling, or in any way critical of others.

 

[Tumbleweed Farm]

I gave up hatchery birds three years ago and have hatched out chicks myself since then from BYC members. I became very interested in the Plymouth Rocks some months ago. I've read for hours, studied and found the best known breeders on here for Rocks and now have a few Columbian, Penciled and Barred. I am a newbie but I'm no dummy. I have joined the APA and bought the SOP. I have miles and miles to go to be anywhere but without some help or input it will be difficult.

My intent is to get somewhere someday with these birds and share with others. I live in the far West and there are not many Heritage Plymouth Rocks in these parts. I don't dream of selling eggs and chicks to make any money--I have spent so much getting started I would not be able to even recoup those costs anyway. I dearly love the breed and am willing to do my part to help--but, if I am ignored when I have a question or make a post--I will indeed find the answer, it will just be harder. I look forward to the new thread -- I will be reading!

 

[Wynette]

I'm going to be very careful not to offend and I am going to reply only one time because at the present time I am beginning to feel a bit unwelcome based upon the posts regarding my comments (and others) concerning this move and I am beginning to question my association with BYC and/or the need to continue my association here.

FIRST, I have always tried to respond with kindness and respect to any post on a thread to which I subscribe. I believe those that know me can attest to that. Whether or not the guidelines for this thread changes or not, the manner in which I, personally, respond to posts will not change. If I might overstep my bounds and speak for Matt and Bill, I would expect that they feel quite the same way.

SECONDLY, if the intent of this thread change is to encourage the participation of breeders/exhibitors WHO ARE NOT CURRENTLY BYC MEMBERS, we, the entire BYC community, myself included, must accept the fact that "in perception lies reality". One doesn't have to look far to see that most serious breeders view BYC as a community of "chicken huggers" and these individuals do not take BYC seriously. Not for the point of excluding anyone, but my point(s) regarding "casual poultry owners" or "pet owners" were not meant to be derogatory in any way, but moreso to identify the fact that there are several groups of people raising chickens....those that do it for enjoyment only and those that breed more seriously. I'll liken this to something I am very familiar with....youth baseball. In youth baseball there are several groups as well....those that play "Little League/Dizzy Dean, etc" simply to learn the sport and for enjoyment and those that play "Travel/Competitive" baseball who's intent is to GROW in their ability...neither is meant to be derogatory not segregational, there are simply 2 groups with differing objectives and the manner in which they engage in the sport is different. My point is that if we don't change for the purpose of encouraging the participation of those you wish to engage, we will make no progress, and the members you have will be the members you continue to have. Exhibition poultry folks are definitely a close knit, cliquish, sometimes snobbish, "good ole boy" group....we can either accept that and adapt as best we can to encourage their participation, or acknowledge the likelihood we will never get them to assist. Remember, "a tiger doesn't change his stripes"

FINALLY, I am quite disturbed to see that comments were allowed to continue, even after Matt publicly apologized for his comments and choice of words; and I quote Matt... "Wasn't intended to be insulting, ESPECIALLY to newcomers, so my apologies. I love helping newcomers along their journey into true poultry and sharing the limited amount of knowledge and experience I have." I believe to continue to berate him after a heartfelt, PUBLIC apology, is distasteful

Perhaps we all could have chosen a better words....but at least from me personally, it was not intended to be derogatory, belittling, or in any way critical of others.

I agree, Scott; further comment wasn't needed to Matt, and my personal apologies to him - @BGMatt - for that. I'm of the persuasion that once something is addressed, you move on. That's how I was raised and it's done me quite well through life.

For you, Scott, I don't know that I have EVER seen you say a negative, mean-spirited thing toward another member. In fact, you are one of the most level-headed and helpful folks in the heritage sections - at least in my opinion.

No, a tiger can't change his stripes. But - human beings can certainly learn a more effective way of communicating. Strip out the nasty stuff and be factual, and it becomes more about learning and less about disdain for the bird being discussed. Know what I mean? For example - rather than, "Holy crap, that's the ugliest "Orpington" I have ever seen, and you have NO business breeding that bird!" Give the owner something that they can learn - maybe "Orpingtons, per the Standard of Perfections, should be large and fluffy...this bird was probably bred for purposes other than exhibition. If you'd like some really nice examples of the breed, you might contact XXX or refer to the Orpington thread." You've said the same thing, just in a more helpful way.

Listen, I know many of us are died-in-the-wool about how we communicate. However, I've worked with a few folks in the past about their posting style...folks with many, many years of poultry experience. Many have been able to figure out a "happy medium" so to speak. So, yep - I know it can be done.

Why not just give it a whirl & see how it turns out? The way I look at it, and what I've been communicating to Rob now for several years, is that folks are out there, they need a place to discuss higher-level poultry issues, and there's no reason that it can't be BYC. The beauty of having it here is the same thing that y'all are frustrated about - the fact that there are so many members here, most of which are backyard keepers. Why do I say "the beauty"? Because just LOOK at all those opportunities to educate, pass along your knowledge & theories, and help someone else move along! Isn't that what this is all about?

 

[speckledhen]

Quote: Scott, I do not believe that the intent of the division of content of the thread, and that is truly all it is, was to make any of these folks take BYC seriously. As you said, they wont change their thinking anyway. BYC will never be like some of those other types of forums I've been on that make everyone feel unwelcome if they haven't already "arrived" with their birds. I myself have felt unwelcome on certain threads here (which I will not name) asking what I felt was a legit breeding query, but because the bird in question was not already "to standard" that I was trying to work with, I felt sort of shoved aside. So, I will not be back to that thread, will leave it and others like it to the active participants to pat each other on the back and marvel at their birds. If I felt like that, I can imagine how others who don't have the years of moderator experience on the forum that I do would feel. Tone is amazingly different on other breed/breeder threads and breeders help out willingly, just as Bob Blosl did.

BYC is inclusive, not exclusive, always has been, always will be unless Rob kicks the bucket or sells out to someone who does not have his vision for BYC. Now, folks who need breeding advice/information from those in the know can go where they are best served and those who just want to generally ask about breeds that they have or show their photos can go to the other thread. It was rather disheartening and distasteful to think that some would believe they now had a cool club that would keep "unsuitable" folks out-yes, I did see Matt's apology and was not berating him, only trying to clarify that this was not some exclusive new club but a division of information, but there were words used by several folks that were very hurtful to our members and are still on the page for all to see, so I'm not singling anyone out, just the general attitude that I know is here and held by those crochety folks who always denigrate this forum on other forums.

Let's just go where it's most helpful to get your information and participate there and stay positive and helpful to others. Scott, like Wynette said, you are one of the nicest and most helpful folks we know. Just keep on doing what you're doing!

 

[Wynette]

I do not believe that the intent of the division of content of the thread, and that is truly all it is, was to make any of these folks take BYC seriously.

This one sentence sums up why we have opened the new section. It's not our goal to "keep people out" - it's our goal to provide two distinct areas for all to coexist. Will this resolve all the issues we have with the two distinct types of poultry folks? Surely not; but, it should greatly reduce them.

 

[rancher hicks]

I hope I won't be stepping on any toes to offer this. I keep chickens for a number of reasons. The way I see it, I can keep hatchery or I can keep the good stuff. Whether I show or breed shouldn't matter. I have a reputation for having nice birds. Birds that others may choose to keep and show and perhaps work to improve too.

Right now I have one other person and only one other person in NY that keeps Birchen Marans like me and we work together. I do keep other breeds too.

However, I'd hate to see this thread die, because while I may not have the time and resources to devote to the "fancy" as the British would say, it will have an affect on what I keep in my yard. I'm sure I won't participate but I will read and learn.

I buy the Practical Poultry magazine because, I learn about different breeds, what to look for and how to buy. I may not buy or keep any of the many breeds out there, but I'm learning.

Now for those who may or may not have taken leave. I've been at the same church for nearly 40 years and I've learned to endure when my nose gets out of joint. I've got many long time friends and it has become my life. I am grateful to have been taught to press on and hang in there. Not become a church hopper like some who go from church to church every time someone says or does something that upsets them.

So, what has this to do with what I see happening here ? ( I could be wrong, I wear dollar store glasses)

If you're an expert, judge, breeder or what ever you'd like to be called, then have a little faith that you just might reach someone and stick it out. Why should it matter if your classroom is only filled with those YOU choose or prefer. I know my pastor doesn't get to choose who sits in the pews. Yet there he was week after week, year after year and now he's in his seventies, and I'm all the better for it. And he sure hasn't quit when folks get up in the middle of a meeting, walk out and never come back.

So whatta ya say? Are you strong enough to continue and move on? I hope so, cuz I've got a granddaughter who they're calling my chicken girl.

Peace,

Rancher

 

[Tumbleweed Farm]

Well said Rancher Hicks, thank you!

 

[sumi]

Quote: Well said!

 

[ladycat]

BYC has always been about inclusion for everyone. Personally, I don't think this new split into 2 forums is about an us vs them mindset. I think it's about helping people more easily find the info most pertinent to their quest for knowledge.

I agree.