New Hampshire Red OR New Hampshire Heritage Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Chloe,

The chicken has been domesticated for 5000 years, give or take. There are no chickens of different subspecies, like the different kinds of elephants, for example, the African elephant with it's larger ears and the Indian Elephant with it's smaller ears. Nothing like that exists concerning the chicken. Chickens are all just chickens.

The "Breeds" of chickens are a human invention. Mankind has taken the chicken and mixed/mated/blended, and "made them" or bred them to a certain look, and then, once they bred true, year after year, and people liked this or that new breed, they sat down. First, they looked carefully at the bird that the inventor, if you will, had made. They talked about the neck, the head, the color, the size, the leg color, the back, the tail, the egg production, the eye color, the comb type and wattles and much more. They came to an agreement as to those features and proceeded to write all this down. This is called the Standard for that breed. Paintings and drawings were commissioned that depicted the ideal of the new bird. This is how all these different "breeds" were both invented and established.

Two football teams take the field. What if one team believed they could play by Canadian rules (only 3 downs) while the other team believed it play by US college rules? Entirely different games. Someone has to decide. They both cannot be used at the same time. So, in the US... the NCAA rules college football. Makes the rules, fines the cheaters, etc. Done.

In the US, the equivalent poultry authority is the American Poultry Association. There ARE NO BREEDS without their say so. Period. They and they alone. Otherwise, one person would be free to say a black bird is a Buckeye while another person could call an orange bird a Buckeye. The APA, as it did with all the accepted breeds, It took Mrs. Nettie Metcalf's application to have her birds accepted as a new breed, in 1904. A Standard was carefully written, the name BUCKEYE was finally settled on was inked in place and drawings were done. Only birds that look like the Buckeye, that are bred from true Buckeyes, that are entered into APA sanctioned shows as Buckeyes and judged by the judges as true BUCKEYES are Buckeyes. I may have a similar type, kinda sort of close to looking like a Buckeye bird, that I've concocted and bred, but I don't really get to call it that.

No policeman will come to my door and arrest me, but I'm not being accurate. No arrests will be made if I run an advertisement on the web and sell the chicks as Buckeyes. I can open a hatchery and sell thousands of my chicks as Buckeye Browns or Buckeye Reds and people may come to call them that, in common use. But there still...... is no breed called the Buckeye Red or the Buckeye Brown. Why not? Because no breed was ever established by the APA as the Buckeye Red or Buckeye Brown.

But only the APA can establish a breed? Really? Yes. If my bird is judged as failing to be up to the standard written by the APA for my "close to Buckeye" birds? Nah! They're toast. Still chickens, even great chickens. But until or unless my chickens are judged by an APA judge as Buckeyes? They're not Buckeyes.

No, we don't get to calls things whatever we want. It doesn't matter that one finds the term New Hampshire Red used on TV, in videos, on websites, in Wiki articles, or by 50 hatcheries, that will not make it a breed, can never make it a breed.

When the inventors or breeders of the New Hampshire birds, in 1935, petitioned the APA for their new birds to be accepted as a breed, the birds were accepted and named New Hampshire. That is it's official name.

We cannot play Canadian football rules, or Australian football rules and NFL football rules and NCAA football rules all at the same time. There can only be ONE authoritative governing body, or all breeds can be whatever we wish. Chaos reigns. All you've got then is just chickens. No breed is a breed in the US, until or unless the APA says it is, and what the APA says it is, and all birds from then on, claiming to be that breed, must meet a high percentage of the Standard of Perfection written for that breed, or it is disqualified, DQ'ed and that is that.
 
Last edited:
I for one appreciate the education. It can be frustrating when sources that should be knowledgable use the incorrect names!
 
Chris, read this.

http://smallfarm.about.com/od/chickens/a/New-Hampshire-Red-Chicken-Breed-Profile.htm

http://www.omlet.us/breeds/chickens/new+hampshire+red/

Link war.

And I don't think you quuuiitteee get what I'm trying to explain to you. You can call them New Hampshire Reds or New Hampshires. It doesn't particularly matter! It's a free country! I can call my New Hampshires New Hampshire Reds and the world won't collapse around me!

Btw, I don't like the poultry association. It furnishes no information about breeds of chickens. Just the name. Real informative, I'm sure.
lol
A link to a hatchery and to someone just as incorrect about the breed as you are with the breed name.
Let's put it this was you could post a thousand links that say "New Hampshire Red" and it isn't going to make it a true breed or breed name...
All you have to do is go to the APA link I posted and see the truth.



Quote: All you have to do is order the ASOP (American Standard of Perfection) and it will tell most all you need to know about a breed.


Chris
 
I for one appreciate the education. It can be frustrating when sources that should be knowledgable use the incorrect names!

Yes, it is. The confusion is somewhat understandable. The NH was bred out of the Rhode Island Red. Add to that "common or street slang usage? You can see how it happens.
But, again, Wiki's are notoriously in error. No professor will allow you to quote from a Wiki of any kind. They have no authority or verification and are not reliable as source quoting. Same with self published web sites, blogs and a host of other internet sites. The world wide web is the wild, wild west. There's no sheriff.

Further, the hatcheries have Golden Comets, Production Reds, Cinnamon Queens, Gold Stars, Red Stars, Black Stars, all kind of made up names. None of them breeds.

Lastly, Mr. P. Allen Smith. A fine guy, I am sure. He's been called the Martha Stewart of the south. His education is in garden design. He's quite wealthy and has a staff reputed to number almost 50 people. You can't really think he keeps all 600 acres on his estate, with all those lush garden, elaborate decorations, animals, and that mansion up by by himself? No no.
He is a TV personality and producer, very, very busy producer on everything from flower, food, design, decorating, blah blah blah. He said to be a "life style" advocate or consultant.

A chicken breeder? No. He has never likely ever entered a poultry show. If he were a breeder, his name would be well known in the poultry circles as a breeder, but it is not. This can easily be researched. Again, the birds shown on the video referenced were hatchery grade and some where in less that ideal condition. Easy to see. There was nothing jumping out of that coop that resembled the quality required. Sorry. Again, he is known to work from dawn to dusk preparing radio talk shows, TV spots, and YouTube videos. He is a media personality. A great guy I am sure. A poultry expert? Hardly.

That he called the NH Reds is evidence of nothing regarding his expertise except that his staff writers got his script wrong. LOL. That is, if they wanted him to be accurate.

We all live and learn and must continue to grow and learn. None of us know it all. It is a life long journey. It is a passion, a love and a hobby. Have some fun along the way, but learn.
 
Last edited:
There will never be another breed within the APA with RED in its name like the Rhode Island Red, the reason is simple the name Rhode Island Red states two things, The place of origin and the breed name.

Place of Origin - Rhode Island
Breed Name - Red

Note that the Rhode Island White is a different breed than the Rhode Island Red but still has the same standard as the R.I. Red

Place of Origin - Rhode Island
Breed Name - White

Chris
 
Yes, it is. The confusion is somewhat understandable. The NH was bred out of the Rhode Island Red. Add to that "common or street slang usage? You can see how it happens.
But, again, Wiki's are notoriously in error. No professor will allow you to quote from a Wiki of any kind. They have no authority or verification and are not reliable as source quoting. Same with self published web sites, blogs and a host of other internet sites. The world wide web is the wild, wild west. There's no sheriff.

Further, the hatcheries have Golden Comets, Production Reds, Cinnamon Queens, Gold Stars, Red Stars, Black Stars, all kind of made up names. None of them breeds.

Lastly, Mr. P. Allen Smith. A fine guy, I am sure. He's been called the Martha Stewart of the south. His education is in garden design. He's quite wealthy and has a staff reputed to number almost 50 people. You can't really think he keeps all 600 acres on his estate, with all those lush garden, elaborate decorations, animals, and that mansion up by by himself? No no.
He is a TV personality and producer, very, very busy producer on everything from flower, food, design, decorating, blah blah blah. He said to be a "life style" advocate or consultant.

A chicken breeder? No. He has never likely ever entered a poultry show. If he were a breeder, his name would be well known in the poultry circles as a breeder, but it is not. This can easily be researched. Again, the birds shown on the video referenced were hatchery grade and some where in less that ideal condition. Easy to see. There was nothing jumping out of that coop that resembled the quality required. Sorry. Again, he is known to work from dawn to dusk preparing radio talk shows, TV spots, and YouTube videos. He is a media personality. A great guy I am sure. A poultry expert? Hardly.

That he called the NH Reds is evidence of nothing regarding his expertise except that his staff writers got his script wrong. LOL. That is, if they wanted him to be accurate.

We all live and learn and must continue to grow and learn. None of us know it all. It is a life long journey. It is a passion, a love and a hobby. Have some fun along the way, but learn.

Well said

Chris
 
Reading back thriugh this thread I'm reminded of a quote from, I believe Samuel Johnson, " the education of fools is folly".
 
There will never be another breed within the APA with RED in its name like the Rhode Island Red, the reason is simple the name Rhode Island Red states two things, The place of origin and the breed name.

Place of Origin - Rhode Island
Breed Name - Red

Note that the Rhode Island White is a different breed than the Rhode Island Red but still has the same standard as the R.I. Red

Place of Origin - Rhode Island
Breed Name - White

Chris
I did not know that Chris. I often refer to my RIR's as Reds but never really thought anything about it. Not that I have or want Rhode Island Whites but would I be correct in calling them Whites?

Just wondering!!!
Chris
 
Quote:
Mrs. Nettie Metcalf actually did call her birds "BUCKEYE REDS" and attempted to get them admitted with that name. In 1909 recounting the history of the Buckeye, Metcalf wrote, she



Quote:

Buckeye Reds, New Hampshire Reds . . . semantics . . . who really cares?
 
Last edited:
Different Shades/breeds of RED:

New Hampshire





Buckeye




S.C. Rhode Island Red




Note also: There is another "RED" breed called a "RED SUSSEX": Place of Origin: County of Sussex (UK); Variety: Red (admitted as an APA breed in 1914)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

New posts New threads Active threads

Back
Top Bottom