New puppy love: Beware of bringing home those cute deceiving predators!

[roosterhavoc]

Some people shouldn’t own dogs period.

 

[The Moonshiner]

We have 3 well trained dogs. A Siberian Husky X Malamute X GSD X ?, her faithful Golden X Malamute sidekick and I'm not sure why but I now also have a Reg Siberian Husky pup too
I keep our chickens in a 100x100 old horse paddock that shares fence with the dogs. Thus far, they've not killed any of OUR chickens, bothered them, dug to get to at them etc. However it has happened that when I'm in with our chickens dog #1 thinks "Chickens?! I know where theres more chickens and we can eat those ones because they're not OUR chickens!..." and so the brat pack takes off to my neighbors free ranging flock of 60+ and kills one or two. Unfortunately they (mainly dog #1) has differentiated "our chickens" from "those other chickens"...

For what its worth: We had one dog who only took one time of me tieing his killed chicken to his neck and him wearing a dead barred rock for a week to fix that issue and he never killed chicken again.

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More in regards to the original post: I have two professional dog trainers in the family. We have a handful of German Shepherds in the family, seem to be a favorite. I will advocate for the OP & agree with others that, these are a brilliant dogs, but some are just NOT easy to manage and they're not for everyone and that is OK! Not everyone has the same skills as a dog trainer. I've likened the GSD to the Thoroughbred horse before, they're just more horse. Not every laid back trail rider wants a horse that is "to much extra horse" and thats OK. German Shepherds, while I love em, can be intense, driven dogs that need more than casual training and limited jobs. I do not suggest trial and error rehoming of dogs, sometimes it happens, but to avoid further rehomings, I would suggest looking at breeds & deciding what dog traits you're OK with. First off, Why do you want another dog, is its purpose to be the older dogs friend or a livestock guardian? That might help narrow it down. And assume that ALL DOGS will need to be taught that chickens are friends, not food.
Personally, I've found the Husky type mixes to click well with me. I do not necessarily need them to guard my goats, chickens or rabbits because we keep our stock in very secure and appropriate fencing. I landed on them because 1) my dogs are strictly outdoors and I live somewhere where it is very cold 6 months out of the year. 2) I need them to respect my other critters, not bark at and terrorize them and in that they're dogs running around putting dog smells places and generally not OK with foxes and coyotes on their farm they do protect. Even from within their pen. By proximity to the chicken coop, due to our set up and them fence sharing, they deter anything from getting the chickens without actually having to be so chicken safe themselves that they live with them. 3) I think they're stinking cute and they can pull a sled. So thats how we've landed here. The Huskies struggles in training differ from my relatives GSDs struggles... obviously, teaching anything with husky in it to STAY HOME is the training compliant you'll hear people have. Hence, look into various breeds to see what it is that you do not want to deal with, and narrow it down.
Some of the best laid back easy farm dogs I've known are small-medium sized mixed type breeds. Think, like, the cute little puggle posted. That makes sense to me, that dog would do well by nature with chickens. We have a neighbor with a beagle, lab, rat terrier something (right...) mix who is great at protecting and great at ignoring the livestock. No prey drive. However, she isn't a great serious protector "size" dog.

The good ole small mutt is so often looked over but so often the best choice in many situations. Or, to not replace the dog is a fine option too.

Why do you not do something to keep your dogs at home and not going and killing the neighbors birds?
If a dogs gonna kill birds here it needs to be our birds. If they run at large and kill neighbors chickens there's a better then average chance they wouldn't make it out alive.

 

[JadeFarms]

When I HAD my birds, Eva would sometimes slip into the run with me, mostly sniffing around. She LOVED to run at the chickens while OUTside the run and watch them scatter. She has a bad habit of chasing the cats, but That has a plus side. ALL of my 7 cats are climbing trees and posts all the time now bc Eva chases them. I lost a wonderful cat 7 years ago. Her name was "Favorite", she was hanging mostly in the barn at that time, but sometimes in the summer would come to the door pretty early, like 5AM. I was beat that morning and didn't get up early. A neighbor's dog had ripped her apart. We only found her her front legs. She was 12yo. and not afraid of dogs. THAT dog had been wandering onto the 5 acre property, but I never saw him after this incident. I suspect he dragged the rest of her home and the neighbors panicked.
ALL puppies will mouth a cat on the neck and we broke her of that very early. It was one of the few times I smacked her in the face. She doesn't do that any more.
We have 3 cats, 1 yr 9 months old, that were abandoned by their mother--left and got caught by a coyote I imagine, since, though she was feral she had been a very good cat mother. There were 5 in the litter and these 3 were the only ones crying and still alive. So, I brought them in from the barn loft at 3 weeks old. I knew they were female bc they are all diluted calico. No droppers or bottles, just kitten milk in a bowl. Our ranking male cat, Tomkins, who pretty much lives inside since he was neutered last year, would spend lots of time cleaning them up after they ate.
These 3 cats are so docile and Tomkins and (Lynx, Mynx and Smudgekins) aren't at all afraid of Eva. They know that you have to run to be chased, so they will walk to the door. All 3 cats think that DH and I are their parents. Lynx even tried to go with us on our CO trip this week, since she blends in DH's rabbit hat.
What is important is that you spend time with your animals. Dogs and cats, especially will reward your time in multiples. Set barriers, be consistant in your training, OVERdo the praise when your dog does what you want, rarely hit any animal in the face, or at all. Dogs understand crating and isolation and will work towards avoiding it. Even though I crate Eva when she is naughty, she willingly goes in her crate by herself at bedtime, and she knows that it is the only thing that she really "owns."
Maybe you are NOT a dog person. If you have young children at home, a puppy is just another child and you can get "dog tired" with one more to train.
Older dogs, especially, are heartbroken when they are rehomed and don't understand.

I agree! I love dogs and cats, but I would prefer snakes and birds. But, I like all animals and bugs.

 

[Golden Chicken Master]

Domestic Dogs are so deceiving! Don't let those puppy eyes fool you, especially when they look so sad and sorry for killing your chickens. It's a ploy until they have a chance to do it again! I just had to re-home my newest beautiful cream sable German shepherd puppy because his prey drive was off the charts! My old German shepherd/Rottie mix knows the chickens are our friends to be loved and protected and I thought I could raise the new shepherd puppy to respect the fowl also. NOT! Electric collars and fences be damned! He was a straight up chicken murderer and at the slightest chance he was going for blood. Darling hubby swore he was part coyote! It was plain cruel to keep him when I know it would be a matter of time before he would kill again or worse yet finally catch the family cat he started chasing up trees. Sad to see him go but chickens and cats were here first and after the third killing it was the last resort.

Seems like the dogs that I tend to like are not typically LGD dogs. In the SC low country, I hate to have such a giant furry dog in this humidity. I can picture the intense hot spots, heat exhaustion and tons of seasonal fur shedding competing with molting feathers! LOL!

So other than a beware of new puppy this thread is touting, i was wonder if anyone else has success with non-LGD breeds that I may take into consideration when shopping for a replacement. I got lucky with my Shepweiler, being a calm laid back girl that learned chickens are our family too. I'm weary of bringing home Jack the Ripper again, but my old dog was enjoying having a buddy without feathers too.

Truth!!!! I have not had the strength until now to let everyone know that my Roo was recently murdered by my poodles (of which I am not a fan of) I breed Goldens and doodles and have to have a few poodles... I am retiring these gals that conveniently after their grooming got loose from their inside pen and attacked and subsequently murdered my poodle who was sleeping in his birdhouse . Yes this sucks but yes this is their instinct so the above post YES WATCH OUT!!!!!! DO not think your dog(s) will interact kindly with your chickens, dogs are carnivores and predators and they love to eat chickens...

Great topic and Please dont judge me for this mishap, it was an accident although caused by my error for not checking the poodles pen, I am broken hearted, my Roo was amazing all I can say is I hope to heck he put up a good fight!

Lesson to us all keep dogs far away from chickens!!!!

 

[Golden Chicken Master]

I don't think people should beware of getting a new puppy as much as they need to be aware that dogs need training.
It's no surprise that without any or much of any that they're gonna kill your chickens again and again and again.
Dogs are a responsibly not just a throw away object when they do something wrong.

Yes and no... There are many breeds that are instinctual and will kill, then there are those that can be trained. Dogs are not likely people, we all basically have the same "values" dogs differ greatly by breed,.. I have been a canine behavior consultant for 20 years, I have seen all kinds and you are right about training but instinct can overcome especially with an intact animal... a spayed or neutered dog is a different ball game... All in all be careful and train for sure, socialize with the chickens but always be there to supervise...

 

[ducks4you]

I agree!! If I was really hungry, I'd be thinking of eating them, too. Don't misunderstand, I only trust my 12yo dog with chickens. Eva has brought home a couple of rabbits to eat, and she especially loves turkey leftovers.
They will act differently if you aren't looking.
So, YOU need to protect your smaller and more vulnerable animals from the ones that you keep that will kill them. PERIOD.
Don't you LOVE those videos where somebody says that their cat and parakeet are best friends? Leave THEM alone and you have the ending of the Mayhem cat commercial.

 

[centrarchid]

People that have experience with success should be leading this. Having those that failed and consider that the only outcome are not benefiting anyone.

 

[Barredhen]

Why do you not do something to keep your dogs at home and not going and killing the neighbors birds?
If a dogs gonna kill birds here it needs to be our birds. If they run at large and kill neighbors chickens there's a better then average chance they wouldn't make it out alive.

Lol. I'm sorry, I do! They live in a very large pen and come out when I'm out. Occasionally, while I'm doing chores, they have followed someone back down the road before I know that they're missing.
I was merely pointing out the irony of dog logic determining which chickens to leave and which chickens they think are fair game. This is not a frequent incident as I do keep my dogs to home. And the neighbors were told, graciously understood, and were compensated.

 

[MrFluffyandGirls]

I believe that instinct is something you maybe able to divert with training methods but you can not eliminate and when the chance arrives instinct/drive can short circuit training. I see some have been pressing hard on irresponsible dog ownership to impatient to train, socialize, contain properly and flippantly re-homing, I get it. Don't worry I'm not novice enough to throw away the morals of responsible animal ownership.

I also understood that I had command trained this pup just as well as my older Shepweiler but when livestock entered the picture I could see a switch flip.( Try to think on the lines of a pitbull news story that says it would never hurt a fly and then attacks unexpected) My husband was even alarmed at the intensity of his sudden drive. It was the best decision for all involved as a responsible pet owner.
I assure you the pup I re-homed is laid back on a couch eating cheese balls waiting for his next trip to PETCO right now! (which is a heck of allot better than he got with me! Because I had him on a strict diet! LOL!) Responsible owner ship is foremost and I should of added some back ground in picking this pup up on impulse at a Tractor Supply not knowing his family history, seeing how he interacted with litter mates or properly judging his temperament. Yes. very irresponsible...but he was pound bound so I sorta saved him from the possibility of the gas chamber.

So my initial warning was for the novice or not so novice (ie..me) that can easily fall prey to those doe eyed, baby breath canines that get thrust into unsuspected arms. Stay Aware!! HA,Ha!

And I was curious to see which breeds people had successfully added to the mix which were not typical LGD breeds. Sorry if I stoked the fires on anyone thinking I was being unrealistic or irresponsible.

 

[ducks4you]

Nope. Bet you lost$. My GSD ran $800.00 and I didn't register bc I got her spayed. Her sire was imported from Romania ("Chico") and her mother's parents are both from Germany ("Lagertha.") Not the latest picture, but I got her microchipped. She aDORES my older dog, "Pyg." Pyg sits right next to my chair in the LR and gets kisses and cuddles. Eva asks for the same. I can take away A N Y T H I N G , food or treats from my 2 dogs, and it has always been that way. I realize that I have a forceful personality, which I believe you must have if you own a horse, but I am top Bitxx in the house, barn or coop. Protect your vulnerable animals, and, maybe get a docile breed of dog AND pay for obedience training.