**NEW QUESTION PG. 12** Autism: Yes, you may ask my opinion!

[Naria]

Quote:
That is interesting, the processing words visually. I can really understand then how visual cues like facial expression would get missed. When you remove the task of having to respond, are you able to devide your attention with something else visually demanding like listening to talk radio or an audio book while driving?

What kind of advice would you give me for a good face-to-face converstation with you? What could I do to take some of the pressure off as we talk? What about meeting a child or someone who is on a lower functioning level?

 

[Jena]

Naria,

As you have read through the thread, you will know I am not diagnosed, but your questions have thrown up some real giggles here,

The answers you have been given made my son laugh so much because he is so aware of how I function. He was screaming that he has seen me doing it.... he has disappeared now after pointing his finger and covering his mouth... lol.

I have been accused of speaking chinese sometimes because I will literally speak backwards. Especially if I am tired... my brain will still work and to me it all comes out exactly right ... I have left several people looking astounded when what they have heard is completely nonsensical. Unless someone stops me I do not realise.

I also have a problem with humour. I have a good sense of humour but it is particular, and if I am not on the wavelength, then it passes me by completely and can even sometimes frighten me.

I am much better at writing things down and love to write letters. Yes cut and paste is brilliant.

I can communicate with children with no problems. Maybe it is the level of attention I will give to talking to them properly and with no misunderstandings. I enjoy talking to little ones, and like to give them due respect. I also taught English to overseas students and did very well. Maybe again because of the need for concentration.

I don't do well in groups and avoid them at all cost because I know I will fail. plus if there is a query or an atmosphere I wil leave as I can feel the energy and it really disturbs me. I will just walk out. It may have nothing to do withme but I will feel so uncomfortable I can not stay.

Hope this adds some more for you.

Jena.

 

[Naria]

Quote:

I am happy to be producing giggles! Learning is more fun that way. (and I thought I'd only be learning about chickens on this site!)

Literally speaking backwards? That is AWSOME! are you able to understand recordings of the spoken word backwards? Can you speak it on purpose when you want to? You could send secret messages to people!

(the only thing pseudo-similar that I can do is write mirror image with my left hand)

He he.. Here in south Georgia (where I am a transplant) one of my ex-boyfriends would sometimes slip into a VERY deep southern drawl that was difficult to understand. So, even though people may not be able to understand what you said, I dont think it's uncommon for your mind to slip your speech patturn when it's tired. SO - you should not be embarrased of such a neat talent!

What I am hoping to get out of this discussion is that if/when I ever meet someone who is Autistic I can be aware of and sensitive to your unique comunication style. I want to make the other person feel comfortable when I talk to them so everybody wins.

Hints for me:
Avoid group conversations, there is too much going on.
Don't force the eye contact.
Remember that you may need a little extra time to process what I said and make your reply.
Don't use subtle hints, just be direct and say what I mean.
It's ok for me to ask what you meant if I did not understand.
Encourage you to ask me to clarify myself if you did not understand me or my current emotion.

Anything else?

 

[okiemommy]

okiemommy wrote:

Good questions smile I believe that I can help out somewhat at least.

I have trouble being able to tell when it is appropriate to talk. I have to constantly pay conscious deliberate attention to the conversations flow to see if it's appropriate to speak. Many times I still get it wrong. Sometimes I still speak out of turn, or say something that is misplaced contextually to early or too late. I also feel a lot of pressure being in any type of conversation especially a group conversation, because I begin overwhelmed with the task at hand; processing and participating, navigating, and understanding on a social level, the conversation. I take note of a rule that I have learned if I notice that the flow of the conversation presents one that I recognize. It can be truly exhausting, especially if the person or people speaking, are using humor or jokes that are not my adopted style of humor, or if they are things I am unfamiliar with.

I personally try to see someone's words when they are speaking as if I am reading them from a book. I have found this to be helpful when I remember to do it, or as long as the speaker isn't speaking so fast that I can't process it in that way.
It's almost like the computer programs that you see for the folks who can't speak or are blind. The words get put up on the screen by typing or eye movements, but the screen reads them out loud slower than they are typed.

My brain visually puts them in a couple of book lines, and then rather than reading them out loud like the computer program, my brain processes them like I'm reading to myself, but like the computer program the getting out of the meaning is slower than it takes me to to put the words up there visually.

Does that make sense? lol

<snip>

Hope this helps! smile

That is interesting, the processing words visually. I can really understand then how visual cues like facial expression would get missed. When you remove the task of having to respond, are you able to devide your attention with something else visually demanding like listening to talk radio or an audio book while driving?

What kind of advice would you give me for a good face-to-face converstation with you? What could I do to take some of the pressure off as we talk? What about meeting a child or someone who is on a lower functioning level?

"When you remove the task of having to respond, are you able to devide your attention with something else visually demanding like listening to talk radio or an audio book while driving?"

Nope, an Audio book..probably not lol, though I've never actually attempted that one. I prefer to read rather than hear it read to me, that way I can process it at my own pace...which btw can also be a common problem with the Autism spectrum-comprehension problems while reading.

A sermon, which I know you didn't list, but would be on the list of something that I might listen to in the car, but very rarely, but I can listen if really interested, and it's in plain simple straighforward language.

Talk radio? Almost never especially if it is back and forth between someone b/c then I have to interpret conversations, and it's usually an emotionally driven subject so that's another strike against it for me wanting to try to listen to it while driving...or even at all. I just prefer the facts or opinions to be presented void of emotion b/c it is really hard for me when a point of view is chock full of someones emotions.

I do like to listen to our local classic rock station morning show b/c it's really funny, and it's a type of humor that I can relate to easily.


"What kind of advice would you give me for a good face-to-face converstation with you?"

Don't misinterpret my grimmacing for negativity. I grimace because I am processing, concentrating and trying to understand a lot of things at once.

Don't misinterpret my body language as a rejection of you, your opinions, or your feelings etc. I am uncomfortable, but not for the reasons you probably think I am. It's hard to show any kind of interest and be aware if I am trying feverishly to process(or am overwhelmed and slowly glazing over and fading away) Let alone the fact that I have a hard time with correct motor processing that matches the correct facial or body expression with the correct moment. It's almost like an emotional/motor delay.


"What could I do to take some of the pressure off as we talk?"


Don't have expectations on me to act, perform, react in a certain way, and don't be dissapointed in me personally if I don't give you the reaction that you are looking for.


I can't answer your question on the lower functioning or child level, bc I have no experience with that. I didn't learn about all of this until I was much older. I would have to dust off some memories that I don't feel like delving into right now

 

[breezy]

Interesting thread. I am married to a man with Aspergers and its been an experience. Been with him since 1983 but only found out he was an aspie last April. (He is currently 74) Finding out he was autistic was huge for both of us. Explained a lot of things for both of us and the growth and learning curve has been tremendous . The biggest impact has been for him because all of his life he has felt " out of sync" with the rest of the world. Amazing stuff this Aspergers...comes with issues but also comes with great gifts too. Thanks for starting the thread

 

[ursusarctosana]

Quote:
There are people with so-called low functioning autism or Classic Kanner's Autism who are good at systemizing, coding, finding patterns, too. Matching dates to days of the week is one example at the savant level; however, most people who have autism and who are also savants are not usually high functioning socially. Daniel Tamet is one example of a person with savant skills who is also considered high functioning. Kim Peak, the real Rainman, is considered low functioning socially, but he also has savant skills.

High functioning/low functioning classifications cannot be based on intelligence level either since a) IQ tests are ethnocentric/socio-centric, and in other ways, generally unreliable and measure averages (most people with autism have varying intelligences with peaks and valleys) and b) intelligence level does not correlate with language ability. So the idea that people with Asperger's are more intelligent is a myth. I'm not saying this because my formal diagnosis is autistic disorder. I am considered Asperger's by some people/autistic disorder by others; it really doesn't matter. It depends on who's deciding to place a label on my differences.

The main issue that separates low/high functioning is verbal language ability. A child may not speak until age four; therefore, having a combination of other traits of autism, he/she may be diagnosed with autistic disorder. When I was a child I exhibited many traits of autistic disorder and I was "in my own world". For example I would take in large amounts of information (memorization) from stories on cassettes I'd listen to and then repeat them over and over and over again to myself and to my grandmother and to the dogs and record myself telling the stories when my grandma asked me to say hello to my aunt on a cassette grandma was recording to send her. I couldn't say, "Hi Aunt" or ask how she was doing. This kind of socializing never crossed my mind. In addition, my first words were not for people, they were names of objects, such as "hot pie" referred to all food that I liked. I did not socialize well with other children. I had extreme meltdowns due to sensory issues, etc.

So, the major difference in classifying the two is the verbal language impairment. Granted, autism as a disorder is known also as a nonverbal communication disorder. This means that there is a gamut of communication skills that a person with autism may not understand. This may include, but not in every case, and is not limited to, eye contact, physical gestures, reading body language, tone of voice, topic of conversation, conversation/relational skills, pedantic speech, lack of speech, talking too loud or talking too quiet, interrupting others, monologues, echolalia, etc.

When someone is low functioning as a child he/she may some day may gain verbal skills to a level that the diagnosis will obviously change to high functioning. This person still has autistic disorder. Granted, if parents or an individual wish to be labeled Asperger's because they think the label autism will harm them in some way, then they can do that. It depends on the doctor, the level of symptoms present, etc.

Autism is considered a PDD -- Pervasive Developmental Disability. The NOS merely means NOT OTHERWISE SPECIFIED because there is a combination of symptoms that do not classify the disorder with enough rigidity for it to be included as strictly autism. Hope this makes sense. Many who have a diagnosis of PDD - NOS have behaviors that are not defined as strictly autistic. If they did, then they would be considered autistic. However, again, it depends on the doctor and the methods used. I'm sure a lot of people who have autism are misdiagnosed as PDD - NOS and the other way around due to lack of observation/insight, etc.

That's why it's good to get a second opinion and to see specialists who know which behaviors they're looking for and not just searching for a "mental illness".

Also, autism is a neurological or neurobiological disorder. This is different from a mental illness. Mental illness is most often chemical, though it can be hereditary. Autism is a developmental disability. Mental illness is not a developmental disability. Autism cannot be cured. Medications, therapies, etc., can sometimes help people with mental illness, in fact, sometimes cure them.

Autism is like the base of a pyramid and mental illness is like a different level up that is supported by the base of the pyramid. Mental illness can be an issue for most people with autism because the world is constructed around neurotypical behaviors and social rules. For a person with autism this causes a lot of stress and anxiety. Often people with autism have co-morbid mental illness not limited to PTSD, anxiety, Obsessive compulsive anxiety disorder, bi-polar disorder (though I believe this tends to be more hereditary and not an actual illness caused by autism itself), and lets not forget depression.

No, you don't have to be decent at math, programming, or engineering to be a person diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. A person with AS can be someone who collects leaves and dries them. In order to be formally diagnosed a person usually experiences behaviors to such an extreme that the behaviors interfere with the person's ability to function in daily life. If a person is a master programmer he/she may have AS or traits of AS, but not actually need a diagnosis because he or she is doing fine in life (for the most part). I've heard of people with AS who seem perfectly content, but everyone else, including their spouse, thinks they are rude, arrogant, etc. But this person has a unique personality, so he/she may not be bothered by some things that bother other people with autism, like knowing there is a difference. There are people on the spectrum who are oblivious to their differences and live their entire lives thinking everyone else is simply a moron. Sometimes these people end up being highly successful. Sometimes they end up in group homes.

To clear it up, I am not Classic Type. Classic Kanner's Autism is considered a severe form of autism. I am someone who has autistic disorder, but it is not Classic Kanner's Autism. It is possible, though, that many people (and I could be and still be typing all of this) are Classic Kanner's Autism and have learned to use a typing device and so they can reach people by typing what they think, but sometimes people have impaired motor skills so it may be very difficult, or too expensive, for them to type so society may go on being ignorant about the fact that this person with Classic Kanner's Autism is actually an intellectual being. It is a matter of appearances and the neurological outcomes that have determined the individual's physical capabilities, but this does not mean the person does not have a mind, much less an intelligent mind.

I write far better than I can communicate verbally, but it varies depending on how I feel. If I am sensorily overwhelmed I may write simply and not come across as intended. I am fairly transparent, so the way I feel determines the tone of my writing and this can be an issue, especially with emails. I can be direct, too, which causes people to feel like their toes have been stepped on and is not good for business. I will never understand hierarchy and I focus on trying to get a job done by going directly to the person who can fulfill my needs the quickest, so talking to one person who talks to another and another and doesn't even ask the person in charge is simply asinine to me. I will always mess that one up no matter what because in the heat of the moment it will make sense to be direct, so I will forget it is uncouth.

Being able to write in a logical way does not mean my comprehension is good. Comprehension may be good sometimes, other times not. This can depend on sensory issues. If sounds are overwhelming I may not be able to concentrate. I also do not comprehend the way some sentences are written and I probably fill in the blanks with what I think I'm reading I am just extremely adapted at pretending I know what is going on. I have my logic as a back-up skill, but under pressure it very easily falls apart.

For example, I was chosen as a finalist (8 people out of 430) to compete in a fiction writing competition in a couple of weeks. But, within an hour of finding out I was crying on the phone to my sister about how I felt responsible for killing a hatchling duck. I will cry about an animal, but when a person is harmed or something terrible happens on the news I feel nothing. My emotions are that of an 11 year old girl. People who are close to me know this and they understand that I will be unreasonable and fall apart over things like a child would, but that at the same time I can accomplish something they cannot.

Another way to explain this is that I have studied everything I could after finding out about autism in my family. I am voracious when I take on a research topic. I've been on several panels here in the community I live in because of this. I've seen these questions dozens of times; furthermore, I can combine other research on neurology and linguistics and draw from that in order to combine different theories and make use of them when I answer these questions I've heard before. By delving deep into these topics in a discussion like this one, I often have new realizations that prompt further knowledge and study, so the amount of information I have amassed in my brain is pretty good, for the most part.

I also type fast, but not too fast. My mother types about 120-130 wpm. I type about 80 or so.

To answer your question about my business degree being futile: I went back to school and studied creative writing. I had the imagination, but lacked the writing skills and needed to learn more about structuring stories and grammar. I learned a lot--probably part of how I am able to write like this.

Right now I do whatever I want to do. At one time I strove for something different, but that wore me out and I knew I had to change my life before I gave up...so...

I write. Publish some little things here and there. Work on the coffee table book. Take photographs. Read. Study my animals--I always have several strange projects going. Basically, I'm an eccentric person, but I have someone who cares enough about me to let me be who I am-someone who has seen me trying to be normal out in the social world, seen me fail miserably and does not want me to do that again.

Yes, my son and I are both considered autistic disorder. We are, according to our doctors, "obviously" high functioning which is probably why that wasn't put down on paper.

People who have autism seem to, for the most part, have difficulty getting along. We tend to butt heads a lot, but I've heard of relationships where both parties have autism and they are a perfect fit.

When we get together in autism group many of us speak out loudly, laugh loud, say random things, become irritated, get up and pace, etc. I can appear very professional and serious, but I say random things in a low tone of voice. I often say inappropriate things like fart jokes and such and I have always gotten away with it--probably due to my physical appearance, though this is not fair.

 

[ursusarctosana]

Quote:
The written word is logical. One word follows another AND since I am a VISUAL thinker I can SEE the words materialize AND I can go back and CHANGE them if they don't LOOK right.

When I follow conversations most often I feel like the room I'm in fades away. The harder I concentrate to pay attention to what the person is saying, the more the room blurs away and the less I can actually look at the person and see them. I hear the words and I construct the words into pictures and create a scene in my mind. I can see the scene, if I'm quick that day, as they talk; however, I can quickly misunderstand what they are saying because the scene may have a detail that, if I get it wrong, makes what they are saying totally different from their intentions. Sometimes people who know me well become frustrated with me because I will stop them mid-sentence and ask a seemingly irrelevant question like "Was the car facing north or south?" or "How tall was he?" This may not make sense at all to the person who is trying to tell me a story, but my brain is analyzing the scene as I hear the words and if my mind sends a signal that I need a specific detail I have to have it in order to move forward or I will stutter and then the rest of what they say will be lost.

Group conversations? I tend to say nothing or blurt out random things that frustrate everyone else. I'm not good with teamwork. I can't handle multiple partners and people working on tasks together. I need quiet and to make my decisions and do things my own way. I focus on details and not the big picture, so if someone is focusing on the big picture I may not be able to move forward at all, get frustrated, and be useless to the group. Otherwise, with some I may dominate the group and just do everything myself. I am a weird scientist type who will start in one corner, make a huge mess, and end up with a finished project, but I don't know how I got there.

 

[ursusarctosana]

Quote:
It is prob. worth noting that often inappropriate images and funny ideas go through my mind when people are talking. I have trouble following them if I am not interested or if I cannot form a picture of what they are saying. I pretend to listen and they think I hear them, but I don't hear them. Just because I nod politely, and/or maintain polite eye contact does not mean I understand what they've said. This is one way a person, like me, can have autism and appear normal.

 

[ursusarctosana]

Quote:
That is interesting, the processing words visually. I can really understand then how visual cues like facial expression would get missed. When you remove the task of having to respond, are you able to devide your attention with something else visually demanding like listening to talk radio or an audio book while driving?

What kind of advice would you give me for a good face-to-face converstation with you? What could I do to take some of the pressure off as we talk? What about meeting a child or someone who is on a lower functioning level?

I do not picture words, but place objects in positions in my mind during conversation in order to reconstruct what happened (the thing the person is telling me about). In order to do this I have to concentrate and use a lot of energy. If I don't do this, then I'm not really listening anyway.

 

[Naria]

Wow! I really appreciate the awsome and open replies.

I have never personally doubted the IQ intellegence level, I simply never understood the many aspects and hurdles of your particular communication barrier.

I am now aware of how hard you work at communicating with the rest of the world, so I think it only fair for me to work and learn how to better communicate with you.

It’s easy to understand why a deaf person has trouble communicating but standardized sign language is still a fairly new thing. I hope it does not take as long for the rest of the world to learn better about autism.

Thank you.