new research debunks trad views on nutrition

[Perris]

In fact nowhere have I read of any chicken dying from eating commercial feed.

The pointers have been swinging towards FLHS and Ascites for some time.
e.g. "Manipulation of the diet composition and/or feed allocation system can have a major effect on the incidence of ascites." Ascites syndrome in broilers: physiological and nutritional perspectives DOI: 10.1080/03079450801902062

No doubt fear of litigation has prevented fingers being pointed directly in published research. Blaming the whole system of rearing is safer. Genetics of strains of birds used in the last couple of decades (yes, very recent, since about 1991) are more significant, but feed is a contributor to various metabolic problems.

 

[Perris]

Further to https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...trad-views-on-nutrition.1567953/post-27524884

Consider a shed with 20,200 birds placed in it. 37 days later, when it's cleared (all birds off to market), there are 16,478.
The daily mortality rate never rose above 0.1 something. The final cumulative daily mortality rate was 2.8.
https://www.gov.scot/publications/guidance-welfare-meat-chickens-meat-breeding-chickens/pages/11/ Annex 4: Cumulative Daily Mortality Rate (CDMR): worked example

As they say, there are lies, lies, and statistics.

Edited to add, for clarity, that the example includes a 'thinning' of the stock at day 32 that removes about 3,200 birds that are excluded from the calculations.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

The first example is very interesting, but a sample size of 2 (yes, 2) farms would be condemned by you if anyone else used it ("For this study, flocks from two farms in Germany were analyzed"). By 'acceptable', I meant mortality rates up to 15% are accepted as valid (possible) numbers and not written off as bad data; obviously no-one wants losses of that order. But cumulative mortality is like compound interest; it might look like a little, but it adds up to surprisingly large numbers over time.

The second example is better and is an encouragement to all those afraid to free range to let their birds out.

Yes, I agree, sample size is so small as to be virtually worthless. Good catch. I can provide others of greate rsize if you would prefer. I've not kept a list of such studies, just seen smaller numbers than you offered in other readings, grabbed the first links I ran across.

 

[11th Hour Poultry]

Further to https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...trad-views-on-nutrition.1567953/post-27524884

Consider a shed with 20,200 birds placed in it. 37 days later, when it's cleared (all birds off to market), there are 16,478.
The daily mortality rate never rose above 0.1 something. The final cumulative daily mortality rate was 2.8.
https://www.gov.scot/publications/guidance-welfare-meat-chickens-meat-breeding-chickens/pages/11/ Annex 4: Cumulative Daily Mortality Rate (CDMR): worked example

As they say, there are lies, lies, and statistics.

Edited to add, for clarity, that the example includes a 'thinning' of the stock at day 32 that removes about 3,200 birds that are excluded from the calculations.

I like your research skills. They are real.

 

[Perris]

I like your research skills. They are real.

thank you. I have a lifetime of experience doing it, and even being well paid for it!

 

[Perris]

A brief piece on how to make kefir, kimchi, kombucha and sauerkraut at home, from the Guardian today
https://www.theguardian.com/food/20...make-your-own-kombucha-kefir-kimchi-and-kraut

the paper is inviting replies to this article too, by the way (link at the end), so if you have opinions on fermented foods, now is your chance to get (properly) published and read

 

[RoyalChick]

A brief piece on how to make kefir, kimchi, kombucha and sauerkraut at home, from the Guardian today
https://www.theguardian.com/food/20...make-your-own-kombucha-kefir-kimchi-and-kraut

the paper is inviting replies to this article too, by the way (link at the end), so if you have opinions on fermented foods, now is your chance to get (properly) published and read

I make kefir but don’t have any desire to be published!
Just for this audience I would say two things from experience
- kefir grains freeze well and will come back to life after multiple years in the freezer. Probably there was some colony die off but as nobody knows what is in them to begin with it is hard to say how much of a loss that is. But it is a handy thing to know if you go away for more than a week or 10 days and want to suspend production. Less than that time just put the jar in the fridge and it will slow down.
- chickens - well at least my chickens love kefir. I give it to them frozen and they happen away at the block of ice cream. I also mix it into mash with their regular feed.

 

[Molpet]

A brief piece on how to make kefir, kimchi, kombucha and sauerkraut at home, from the Guardian today
https://www.theguardian.com/food/20...make-your-own-kombucha-kefir-kimchi-and-kraut

the paper is inviting replies to this article too, by the way (link at the end), so if you have opinions on fermented foods, now is your chance to get (properly) published and read

I made kombucha in a continuous brew keg.... until it tasted funny one day and when I opened it up seemingly a billion fruit flies came out and were growing in the Scoby.
I lost interest in growing my own.

 

[Perris]

I made kombucha in a continuous brew keg.... until it tasted funny one day and when I opened it up seemingly a billion fruit flies came out and were growing in the Scoby.
I lost interest in growing my own.

but you're still here to tell the tale!
What about 'if at first you don't succeed...'?

 

[Sally PB]

Just for this audience I would say two things from experience
- kefir grains freeze well and will come back to life after multiple years in the freezer.

Good to know, thank you. I have some grains in the freezer. Somewhere.

I make my own kombucha, but do about 3 gallons a batch, every other week. I can drink the entire batch myself in two weeks. The chickens get extra scoby pieces every now and then.