New to horses and have a few questions. (Warning a lot of reading)

[reveriereptile]

My FIL got two horses from a friend a few weeks ago. One is around 12 and blind and the other is around 7 and use to be a sulkie horse. I'm not sure what kind of horses they are but the sulkie one is big. The blind horse can be sat on and lead around by the halter with no problem. When it comes to riding her without being lead around she starts going out of control and doesn't understand or take the time to understand the rein/leg commands. We don't get on her to much even though she is the more friendly one of the two. The other one rides pretty good when lead by the halter. My FIL does good when riding her without being lead. She does like to try to run back to the horse fence when she gets to the corner of the rode but my FIL turns her around and stops her and lets her walk again and stop her again to let her know he is in control. My SIL however didn't do that and the horse turned around and ran back and she thought she was going to bounce off the saddle but luckily she stopped near the horse fence. From what I've read we are riding her english style on a western saddle by using some gentle rein pulling and leg pressure. We know not to pull back on the reins to hard cause of the bit and don't want her to rear up or buck. We are still trying to get the the turning our shoulders and hips with slight leg pressure to the side we want to turn her down so we don't need the reins. We do use some voice commands which she seems to understand.

She has bad habits that we want to get her to stop doing but want to know how to take care of the problem correctly to not cause more and some body signs we weren't sure about. When we have her out and are putting the saddle on her or the brittle she wants to turn her back end to the side that you're standing on. We know to never get behind a horse no matter how tame the horse is. How do we get her to not turn her back end towards us? Do we need to show her our space? I've read to spin the lead rope around in circles towards their shoulders but not touch them with it to show youre dominance. Is that what I'm suppose to do with her to teach her my space and dominance over her before trying to saddle her up till she learns? With her being so big and me so small even with help I don't want to get stepped on or knocked over. She doesn't do it all the time but the last two days she has done it more which brings me to some more questions. We had some young cousins out that wanted to get on her (had quite a few different people on her) and be lead around. She usually does real good with being lead and standing still long enough to get on her with someone holding her halter. The past two days she didn't want to stand still (kept wanting to go in circles/didn't want to stop), started pawing at the ground, and while one cousin was on her she lifted her back leg up near her side (weren't sure if she was trying to kick him off). One thing that got me thinking she was acting this way was that it was real windy out. I didn't know if maybe the wind was tickling her ears cause of the way she kept moving them and that she wanted to turn away from the wind. She put her back feet up to her side today also when the other horse wasn't near her (knew it was from her wanting to kick the other horse) and she was just eating but a big gush of wind started. Didn't know if she was trying to scratch her sides or not. Could the wind be why she was acting up? Also is the pawing at the ground a bad sign? Read different things about the pawing. My FIL wasn't sure if it was the wind or that she has been dominated the other horse so much that she thinks she can do the same to us. She likes to bite/kick the other horse which we might seperate the two of them. She doesn't want the other horse near "her" food or water. She acts jealous if we give the other horse attention. When I see her try to bite or kick the other horse should I circle the lead rope towards her and say her name (she knows her name or at least responds to it but not to the other horses name)? Usually when I see her ears go back and her start to go towards the other horse I say her name loud and say a firm no and she stops for that moment till a few minutes later. I've also heard of a one rein stop for emergencies but didn't understand how to preform it but know it is something to not do often and that you need to do bending exercises. We don't have any problems with hoof cleaning or trimming. They left their feet up with no problems. I'd really appericiate any information anyone has. I have been reading some information off the Natural Horse Supply site that has some tips.

 

[karen71]

Boy that was a lot of reading
New to horses also - but I am around a lot of people that know horses

with the saddle is she tied up when you try to put it on - being a sulky horse she also might not be used to saddles sulkies are carts -
horses do have to establish pecking order like chickens she may be trying to establish her order

Horses don't like to be away from the pack so riding her off the farm may make her nervous especially if she is not used to you .

Hope I helped a little probably not but good luck with the horses .

 

[HEChicken]

This sounds like a situation where you might want to find a trainer to help you out with some of these issues. Horses are intelligent animals who will constantly test you to see what they can get away with. It is all about dominance with them. In the natural order of things, there is a dominant horse in the herd and a "pecking order" all the way down to the horse who can be bossed around by all the others. Whether a horse is alpha over the other horses in his/her herd or not, each new encounter with a horse will require that they determine fairly early on who is alpha over who. They will extend this behavior to humans. If they feel they can dominate you, they will, plain and simple. It is important that you establish immediately that you are alpha over them. So - how to do that? Well, my DD is a 90-lb 14YO whose mare occasionally tries to dominate her. When DD goes into the pen, she'll charge with ears laid back and teeth bared. If DD were to back away, the mare would have established that she is alpha. So DD knows to make herself "big" and stand her ground. She carries a crop with her into the pen and uses that to make herself look bigger. It is not necessary to strike the horse with the crop - by using it to extend her own physical size, she establishes dominance effectively.

What you need is an understanding of horse behavior first, and that will lead to an understanding of how to cope with individual behavior's second.

Honestly, it does sound as though you have your hands full. A blind horse and an ex-sulkie horse are not going to be the ideal first horses for people who want to spend afternoons doing hacks around the countryside. The problem you described where the horse doesn't want to be ridden out - horses are social, herd animals who don't want to leave the others and go off by themselves. The horse *should* listen to you but if the rider's are inexperienced, and the horse is inexperienced, it isn't a good combination. Sorry....

 

[ozarkmomma]

www.horseforum.com I get a lot of help and advice from this forum....

 

[19hhbelgian]

I agree with HEChicken. It sounds like you could use some help understanding horses behavior. It sounds like she is "testing" you, in which case you need knowledge on how to deal with her. Her "issues" aren't typically what a "new to horses" owner should be dealing with, but they can be over come with patience and help from a more experience horse person. If she was a sulky horse she's most likely a standardbred... I've met a few standardbreds, and have not had good experiences - they've seemed like a "hot" horse (ready to go - NOW!! - kind of personality). How long has she been off the track? Reason I'm asking is because I have been re-training thoroughbreds for 2 years now. Some have been easy, others I have just let out in the pasture and didn't try to ride them for almost a year after they came to us. The one mare really just needed to be a horse for a while - sitting in the pasture did her a world of good. I'd fuss over her, and taught her the simple stuff (like tying to a post - that took a special type of halter that would break when she'd fly backwards

), and would lunge her in the round pen. Basically I built up a very good relationship with this mare, and she totally trusted me when I did finally put the saddle on her. I try to go the least stressful route for the horses, and a lot of people wouldn't think of letting a horse "chill" in the pasture for that amount of time, but it worked for her.

Being "barn sour" (running back to the farm) can be a very dangerous situation, especially if somebody is on her that doesn't have a whole lot of riding experience. The single rein stop is a good training tool, but you cannot whip a horse into a tight circle when it is running back to the farm. Don't be afraid to apply bit pressure if you need too. BUT you should also be aware of how she was bridle trained as a sulky horse. Sometimes their cues are a lot different than normal riding cues. PLEASE TELL ME YOU'RE WEARING A HELMET!! I know they are a pain, but not as much as having your head get cracked open when you fall off a horse at full speed ahead.

Pawing can be out of boredom, frustration, anticipation... It is a bad habit. If she was acting up when it was really windy, I would think the wind is what was getting her all riled up. I've had people tell me they would never even bother getting their horse out on a windy day because it would just be problems. Honestly, I don't think the wind is an excuse for a horse to behave badly. If she doesn't like the wind, you need to do things with her that are safe for you and her, in order to get her used to it.

In the pasture she needs to work out the herd hierarchy - it is a natural action for horses. But, you did say the other horse is completely blind right? In this case I would separate them. The blind horse doesn't know what sort of body signals the sulky horse is showing since she can't see her. I worry about my appy, and he's only blind in one eye.

Please feel free to pm me if you want with specific questions... This is a lot to go over in a post

 

[reveriereptile]

Thanks for the information. I've been watching videos on youtube about different ways to train and ride to get myself more prepared. I'm not sure how long she hasn't been used as a sulkie but I'll call the last owners up sometime and ask them some more questions about her. It has definitely been a while. I think they said she had won a race but got injuried so she wasn't used as a sulkie anymore but as a casual riding horse. The owners (not the ones that used her for the sulkie) we got her from said they use to ride her but didn't during the winter. When she wants to turn around to run is only about a semi trailer length away from their area. The blind horse probably won't be rode much or if she is only to be lead around to avoid accidents. My FIL was the first to get on her and she didn't know where to go but once he on her on the rode and she felt more safe she wanted to do a trot and had her tail raised out some and looked excited. She does like to be lead around since she knows she isn't going to be walking into something. The sulkie horse I get nervous around her back end if she starts wanting to move around. Especially with her back end turning towards me. My FIL has a BIL that likes to work around race horses. I might have him come over sometime when he isn't busy to help us out. We have lead 9-10 yr. olds around on her with no problem except when it was windy. I definitely won't work with her alone just due to the size differences but I've been also telling my FIL the information I've been reading. We would like to get better working with her.


Here is a picture of Charolette on a good day standing still. We need to buy a rug for her and a new saddle. My FIL use to have a horse a long time ago and that is her old saddle and brittle. She was also a bit dirty in that picture from where she was laying down.

 

[19hhbelgian]

It's good you are doing everything you can to learn more about training horses. That is a step in the right direction

I learned with my first horse. He was a "green" 4 year old quarter horse who wasn't afraid to buck... Then again, I wasn't afraid to ride a buck

Cody honestly taught me more than any other horse I have ever had. I had to be patient with him - fighting with a 1200 pound horse is a losing battle, I also had to be consistent in what I did. Cody and I worked together, and achieved great heights. One key thing is that you can't be afraid, but you need to be smart, and use common sense. Horses pick up on your feelings. Your body language says a lot to a herd animal. If you are afraid, they will pick up on it, and some will take advantage. Know when to reprimand the horse, and know when to let things slide. A horse that has no structure, and only gets patted and never gets told "no", will eventually "walk all over you".

Try looking for used Clinton Anderson videos. He is an excellent natural horsemanship trainer

 

[shadowpaints]

a lot of the saddle problems are likly coming from the saddle. its down on her withers and im sure its painful! please get a saddle that fits her better and a saddle pad before saddling up again! you may also want to try her in a snaffle bit...
just my opinion....

 

[reveriereptile]

I'll definitely be looking up those videos and any links anyone offers. I've been trying to make sure I don't give in to my fear and give up on trying to work with her. Since I'm small and don't have much strength I give in to easy but I'd really like to learn to ride her or other horses. I've been pushing myself to not give up. I'm comfortable around the blind horse since she relies on people to help her out and isn't as big. I try to be around her to get comfortable working with a large animal since it makes me more comfortable around the other horse. Usually when I'm on the ground near either one I avoid the back end and stand close to not to close towards their front side to avoid any kicks while checking their ear movements for any signs that something might happen. Also when being on her I check to make sure she has a ear towards me or my FIL when he is leading her. He makes her stop after walking a bit to make sure she is paying attention to him. When he turns her should I be turning my shoulders/hips and apply leg pressure on the side she is turning even though she is being lead? Also should I do light bouncing along with her movements like they should in beginner training videos?

 

[reveriereptile]

Quote:
I'll check around for some. I know the saddle doesn't seem to fit her as nicely as it did for the blind horse but I wasn't sure if it was due to her back being straighter. The bit we have I think is the curb bit. I'll check around for another bit also. What is the difference between how the curb bit and snaffle bit work?


I looked up the snaffle and it does seem more suitable for what we would want. Thanks for the suggestions.