new to this site,been breeding AYAM CEMANI for 4 year now and want to introduce them into america

[Pyxis]

looks similar did you buy eggs and incubate them

I believe Ravyn hatched him out of eggs from her own birds. Speaking from my experience, I used to get cull cockerels that looked like that too, until I managed to cull color leakage out of my flock.

 

[WVduckchick]

I had a leaky AC that looked like that...

View attachment 1229472

He sure had nice black legs and toes.

While he's a beautiful bird, I'm of the camp that they should be totally black. Why is it so difficult to breed out all leakage in the breed?? They are too tough a breed for me to get into as a breeder, but someday I will have some for yard candy.

 

[007Sean]

I have a neighbor who raises them. Beautiful birds. She got hers from GreenFire Farms.
I'd get some but I raise pheasants.

 

[Ravynscroft]

looks similar did you buy eggs and incubate them

Nope, I hatched him from my flock... and my original stock came from a very reputable breeder... I did my homework extensively, lol...

I believe Ravyn hatched him out of eggs from her own birds. Speaking from my experience, I used to get cull cockerels that looked like that too, until I managed to cull color leakage out of my flock.

X2

He sure had nice black legs and toes.

While he's a beautiful bird, I'm of the camp that they should be totally black. Why is it so difficult to breed out all leakage in the breed?? They are too tough a breed for me to get into as a breeder, but someday I will have some for yard candy.

Because their pattern base is ER (Birchen) and not E (Extended black)... the melanistic gene modifies the plumage to self black... but females can carry silver without expressing it and hide it for generations... it is when a male inherits it that it expresses and becomes apparent that it is hidden and needs to be bred out... this takes a lot of test breeding, culling and time to eradicate...

 

[WVduckchick]

Because their pattern base is ER (Birchen) and not E (Extended black)... the melanistic gene modifies the plumage to self black... but females can carry silver without expressing it and hide it for generations... it is when a male inherits it that it expresses and becomes apparent that it is hidden and needs to be bred out... this takes a lot of test breeding, culling and time to eradicate...

Interesting and excellent info. Makes sense. Thank you.
I have a black cochin hen that I discovered is hiding birchen, I'm trying to breed it out. Shame it can hide for so long and then just pop out.

 

[Ravynscroft]

Interesting and excellent info. Makes sense. Thank you.
I have a black cochin hen that I discovered is hiding birchen, I'm trying to breed it out. Shame it can hide for so long and then just pop out.

Yep, same concept as what you're dealing with... silver or gold?

Many think that fibromelanism covers the expression of black over the whole bird, but that's not quite correct... fibro refers to the skin, meat and bones (thus why there are Silkies in all different feather colors)... melanizers in the plumage are what controls the black feathering... we strive for both areas to express full black, but the balancing act can be difficult...

Btw, I am super sick so this is just a down and dirty 'general idea', lol...

 

[WVduckchick]

Yep, same concept as what you're dealing with... silver or gold?

Many think that fibromelanism covers the expression of black over the whole bird, but that's not quite correct... fibro refers to the skin, meat bones (thus why there are Silkies in all different feather colors)... melanizers in the plumage are what controls the black feathering... we strive for both areas to express full black, but the balancing act can be difficult...

Btw, I am super sick so this is just a down and dirty 'general idea', lol...

Sorry you aren't feeling well, but this is much more understandable than a full genetics lesson. Those go over my head most times, so i appreciate the down and dirty version lol

My apologies to the OP for getting a little off track.

 

[Ravynscroft]

Sorry you aren't feeling well, but this is much more understandable than a full genetics lesson. Those go over my head most times, so i appreciate the down and dirty version lol

My apologies to the OP for getting a little off track.

They go over my head most of the time too! Takes a beating to get through my thick skull, lol...

My apologies to the OP as well... I get carried away with my passion...