New with a lot of questions

[One Chick Two]

Six months! Not what I had planned on ChookRanger! I don't understand why using pullets for meat is a bad idea, My ladies for laying will be kept until they drop their production, the others that I breed will be just for meat and for replacing the layers that are no longer productive. If you would care to elaborate I would love to hear it. Also, if rocks are not the best choice as a dual purpose chicken what other breeds would you suggest? My goal is to do 50 meat birds three times a year without having to buy chicks. As a beginner I want to keep it as simple as I can which is why I'm going with a dual purpose rather than two or three different breeds.

I suggest lots of room as if your target is 50, as there will be many times you WILL have many more than that to be able to process enough. Also a quarantine or hospital area away from the general population. There will be these chickens who break a leg, hurt an eye, get bumblefoot, get pecked until bleeding, get in a fight, etc.

POL Six months- nine months laying time for some pullets.

In your original straight run you should get about half males, unless you purchase sexed chicks. Again, you can get more or less males- we had 17 males in one hundred once. Pullets often lay tiny eggs the first ten or so, and should ideally not be bred until they are a hen, around 1 year. Some will be better layers, some will never lay, and some will be so-so, you will need to monitor everyone- this is why most people try not to process pullets when possible... great hens who are quality layers, big meat birds, etc, good mothers, this is a real balancing act. Especially when molt happens. For some birds the time can be extended from a few weeks to a few months. Depending on where you are, they may stop egg production in the winter.

Out of 100+, we had three broodies last year. The year before, zero broodies. Do not count on them for a serious operation... they are not machines and do not go by schedules. I suggest having a backup incubator as well. Broodies can be broken suddenly and you can lose whole hatches. Grow out areas for juvies of different ages. On that note, we have OEGB on our barnyard area, and they were the best broodies and mothers. Wouldn't lay on their own eggs, but went for, 'big girl eggs.'

Yes, you positively need night time roost poles, no question. Anyone who is a juvie or older should sleep on these at night, or, you will have VERY dirty nest boxes to constantly clean out and lots of droppings on eggs.

Make sure you have plenty of nest boxes- more than 10 or you will have a lot of squawking while they are waiting.

 

[donrae]

There are some decent carcass pics in the meat bird section. I think most folks are trying to say raising a barred rock Pullet for meat is almost going to be a money losing situation. At 6 months I'd guess one of those Pullets would dress out maybe 3lbs....not worth the feed or slaughter IMO. Dual purpose cockerels dress out better, but to optimize carcass size you need to take them to about 6 months. If you want to harvest 50 birds three times a year you'll need to be running 150 birds at times.

I agree on starting small. Get your layers and a rooster. Find out if any of your hens are going to go broody. Explore keeping another breed specifically to brood, or learn about incubating eggs. Raise your first batch of chicks. Either keep the Pullets as replacement layers or sell them as point of lay Pullets. I'd far rather sell that 6 month old girl for $20 than process her scrawny self. Butcher the cockerels and see how you like the meat. Dual purpose can be an acquired taste and texture for some. Get your processing times down well, and be sure you've got freezer space. 50 birds take up a lot of room! Look into pressure cooking as another way to preserve the meat.

Since your emphasis seems to be more on meat production, take a look at the Dixie Rainbow or Pioneer birds. They're mixed breed slow boilers and you'll get a better carcass in less time. The hens aren't stellar layers, but they will produce eggs. I know there are threads about them in the breed faq and meat bird sections.

 

[lazy gardener]

Ditto Donrae: I did some Pioneers last year. They were excellent foragers, and I held one over. She was the first spring chick to start laying. If I wanted layers and meat birds, that's what I'd order: Layers AND meat birds. With as large a flock as you're planning, you could easily keep 2 roos, if you decided to. You mentioned dividing your coop, so you could keep roos in one side, and layers in an other side. If you wanted to, you could mix your flock together throughout the year, and then separate so you could keep your layer stock pure, if that's as important to you as you first indicated. (Choose a breed that's a good layer, and choose a second breed that's a good meat bird.) IMO, once you get started, you'll find that the original plan will change a bit. 50 meat birds is a lot of meat... unless you have a lot of children to feed!

 

[ChookRanger]

Six months! Not what I had planned on ChookRanger! I don't understand why using pullets for meat is a bad idea, My ladies for laying will be kept until they drop their production, the others that I breed will be just for meat and for replacing the layers that are no longer productive. If you would care to elaborate I would love to hear it. Also, if rocks are not the best choice as a dual purpose chicken what other breeds would you suggest? My goal is to do 50 meat birds three times a year without having to buy chicks. As a beginner I want to keep it as simple as I can which is why I'm going with a dual purpose rather than two or three different breeds.

Using pullets for meat is a waste because they will not have much meat on them and they are potential egg layers. At 4 months they will be almost full grown but the cockerels will be larger. You can sell pullets at 16 weeks as point of lay for more than they would be worth as meat. I just think that the eggs are worth waiting for.

It seems to me as though you want a self contained system? You want to use a single breed but only want/need eggs from about 12 hens and you want 150 per year for meat. OK, just so I have this straight, you will have 12 mature hens and one responsible rooster, and you have a batch of pullets and cockerels number about 50 and you will be incubating and hatching about 50 eggs every 3-4 months?
Ahh, now I see.This sounds like some intensive breeding. Maybe what you are looking for is a very large brooder that will be used until the little ones are about 4 months old and the new chicks come in. Think of a 50 chick brooder that can expand over time to accept your growing chickens.

I like the idea of a closed system. Homesteading or starting a small farm is about self reliance. I could buy eggs from the store but I'd rather get them from my chickens or vegetables but I would rather grow them. Simple is good. I tend to take simple things and make them complicated. I also try to be frugal, so sometimes I think of the cost vs value. Layers are more valuable than nonlayers to me. Cornish x, while you do have to buy the chicks every time, come out to a better value per pound of meat than a dual purpose.

The others who have posted here gave some very good advice. I am a small homestead owner, I have chickens for eggs and because I like them. I do not have the resources it seems you have but I do the best I can with what I have. I love to interact with my chooks and they are more like pets than livestock. I could see doing the same thing with 12 as I do with 3. However,50 would not really be pets to me anymore. I would still like them a lot, but I don't think they would be as easy to identify. (ok, I have 2 chickens that I can't tell apart at first glance)

I don't know if anybody answered this so here I go: feeders-- three or four per dozen. 5 gallon bucket waterers-- use chicken nipples! one nipple per chicken with 4 or 5 nipples per bucket.

Again it's just my opinion but there it is. Coop building, flock raising, incubating eggs, broody hens, meat birds, and everything else has a section on this forum and everybody has an opinion. You will figure it all out and you will be adding to it very soon. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

[Strangecacti]

I do so appreciate the advice. I was considering starting smaller but...I don't do it well. Seriously though, your opinions are just what I want, my filter is firmly in place. I would like to start smaller, but to make this a viable portion of my livelihood there are certain parameters I need to meet. The slaughter and work associated with it are familiar to me, the cooking aspect and how to handle various birds (i.e. older tough birds) is no mystery as I am (among all of the things I have done for a living), a Chef. As a life long outdoors man/woodsman, predator control is not an issue (it's an issue but I'm on it!) and I have already begun discouraging would be raiders in anticipation of having chickens and other livestock. I'm sure they will come, but they will not be happy they did. That being said, it has been difficult to nail down certain aspects for the proper care of the chickens, feeders/waterers are a big question, how many chickens per?(as a chef I am very anti-hunger!) And placement of them: in the coop? In the run? Both? As to the breed of chicken I am open, I "have" a Rock, she is a couple years old at least and was turned loose by someone who decided it was too much work to take care of chickens, she roosts on our porch at night and a duck in similar circumstance does the same, (see my post: "My" first chicken, I use the quotes because as far as I'm concerned she and the duck are free, I'm just a helpful neighbor) I decided on BR's because of her and all the information I gathered on them pointed me in that direction, my only worry with introducing other breeds is that I'm going to end up with a cross of chicken that is of no use to me, one that has poor meat or egg production or worse: both. I have one issue with breed, it may be silly, but, dang it, if I never hear the name Cornish cross again it will be too soon.

Once again I realize that so much of this is flexible, but your opinions matter in my decisions because of your greater experience and one thing I have learned is to listen to people even if you disagree on almost everything they say, a tiny nugget of gold mixed in with a bunch of shale is still gold!

 

[aart]

....... one thing I have learned is to listen to people even if you disagree on almost everything they say, a tiny nugget of gold mixed in with a bunch of shale is still gold!

This is 'golden'!!

Hope you come back and share your successes(and failures) with us.
Best of CLuck to you!

 

[Mrs. K]

^^ x2!

It is so hard to give advice to a new person on the forum, because one has no idea where they are coming from..... And many have very pie in the sky visions about raising chickens. However, that does not stop us that love to give advice! haha

As for feeders - anything will work. You will not feed the same amount all the time, what I go by is the feed bowl, my goal is it should be almost empty at dark. If there is a lot left in it, I feed less, if it is completely empty, I feed more. Many people do set up 24 hour feed stations.... but chickens do not eat in the dark. It is often convenient to put out whole bags of feed at one time into a feeder, but it can really draw rodents at night. There was a video on here that cured me of 24 hour feed with the pictures of the rats. I do set up feed like that if I am going to be gone for a couple of days.

As for waterers, I just recently went to the nipple waterers on the side of the bucket..... and it really does keep the water significantly cleaner, which has to be a good thing.

I don't keep water or feed in the coup, mine is outside in the run, which does expose it to the elements. It works better for me. My run is all enclosed, with shelter from the wind, a sun porch in the winter, multiple roosts, and a couple of hide outs. I don't close the coop door, so my birds determine when they go out or in.

Another breed that you might consider, is the Delaware Chicken. I did get some from Sandhill Preservation and was very pleased with them. A very nice thick bird, that laid well too, originally created to be a better dual purpose breed. I was impressed with them.

Good luck.

Mrs K

 

[bobbi-j]

You've received good advice from some very experienced chicken-keepers. Of that advice, if you don't wish to heed any of the rest of it, I'd say the most important thing to remember is what Ridgerunner said about building flexibility into your plan. A person can make anything work out on paper, but there's always a variable that doesn't get figured in that can change everything. Please keep posting your progress - I'm interested to see how your project turns out.

 

[pdirt]

A really great thread...one of the best I've read in a while here.

We raised some Barred Rocks for meat last year, purchased as chicks from a hatchery. Not having specifically raised any other chickens for meat (we've only been at the chicken thing about 2 years now), I thought they turned out well. We've crock-potted two of them so far, one was skinless and the other had skin. It may have been a fluke, but the skinless one was quite a bit drier, which makes sense. We would raise them again, though we'd like to try other breeds, such as the Delaware mentioned.

By your tone in your last message, I imagine you're not wanting to raise Cornish Cross for the same reasons we are. Just because it's cheaper, doesn't make it right for us. That's an opinion folks, and I completely respect those who do choose to raise CX for their own reasons. Besides, the flavor of a dual purpose bird (we've eaten several breeds other than the BR) is worth every penny, in my book.

As for how many birds per feeder or waterer, this is going to depend greatly, based upon the type of feeder or waterer you use and the social dynamics of your flock. I agree with the others to try to start smaller so you can learn along the way, without it being at the expense of the birds. While there's a lot of knowledgeable chicken owners on BYC here, there are a lot of details and specifics to your own habits/patterns and your particular flock that only will come with experience.

Now that our flock is culled down to 23 birds and the mouse issue became more apparent with our other open feeders, I've limited their feeders to just the one treadle feeder. We also have one 5-gal bucket with two of the side-mount horizontal nipples. By most people's standards here, we should probably have at least one other feeder and a couple more nipples. Last night I actually did the first ever crop check and noticed that every single bird had a full crop. Some of them had crops fuller than others, but there was a good bulge on each of them. So even though we only have one feeder in use right now, they seem all to be getting enough to eat. And they seem to be drinking plenty of water, but the watering nipples are in fairly regular use.

 

[Strangecacti]

Once again, I'm thankful for the replies. So in an eggshell...lol, I had to say it...start smaller, stay flexible. Are there any good posts or articles on selling layers? I would rather sell the pullets if there is a market. I am thinking Lazy Gardener is right about keeping a meat breed and a laying breed. I need more research on breed I suppose. That's OK, I love me some research!