Next step in integration?

[Ruralhideaway]

My 5 week olds have been in the outdoor brooder for over a week. They are face to face through the doors with the 12 or 13 week olds out there. Twice a day the littles play in the coop while the others are ranging.

I've read fairly thoroughly about integration recommendations. I can block the brooder doors open just enough for them to get away.

The horror stories about chicks getting killed still scare me. Are my older guys likely to be that mean at that age? No crowing yet, they still peep mostly with occasional grown sounds. But they are huge. Also real lazy and mellow.

So what do I do next, let one big at a time come and meet them maybe? I'm just unsure how to proceed from here, advice welcome. Thank you.

 

[ChickenGirl555]

Well, I've found @aart @sourland and @Mrs. K to be very helpful with my current integration. Maybe they can help.

 

[Mrs. K]

Take a look at your run and your coop. Many times I see just a wide open area, for a run, as people want to give them space. It will look more cluttered, but it is better to have multi- levels in your run, roosts set up in your run, little walls, platforms or small walls. This allows birds to hide from each other, get away from each other. And it just makes it a bit more interesting.

Pallets, sawhorses, ladders, cardboard boxes, all can be added cheaply.

Then have a multiple feed/water stations put where while a bird is eating at one, she cannot see a bird eating at another.

Numbers will also have a big part of this, if they are about equal numbers of older and younger birds, there will not be much of a problem. The older ones can only peck so much, and if you are adding several younger birds, it spreads the pecking out so to speak. Where people get into trouble is where they are trying to add a single or a pair of birds to a much bigger flock, then the new birds get a lot of pecking.

I don't see much age difference, and if they have been watching each other for a week or so, I think I would just turn them together, and see how it goes. There should be some scuffles, some running away, but as long as there is no blood, let it be. Do it a day you can check on them several times a day. If you stop it, it just prolongs it, and you have to keep starting over.

One thing I will caution you, you have 12-13 week old birds, and 5 week old birds, neither are full sized birds. What can seem like a lot of space for chicks or juvenile space, can rapidly get too small of space as the birds approach full size. That will cause over-crowding, and that causes a LOT of PROBLEMS with the flock.

Mrs K

 

[azygous]

As Mrs K pointed out, the key is numerous get-aways for the little ones. That and making sure there are no places a chick can get trapped in a dead end.

I've found that my panic room system works pretty much fool-proof. It's any enclosure with multiple chick-size entries where they can scoot into for safety when chased. I have photos of my system in my article on outdoor brooding.

You can create a quick panic room with a milk crate or dog crate elevated about four inches off the ground with brinks. The chicks will discover quickly they can slip underneath into a safe zone. I like to put food and water inside the panic room so the chicks always have safe access and don't need to compete for them.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

I had a hard time integrating chicks that were older. I would take it slow and continue to separate them when you can't keep an eye on them. It took about 2 months before the older ones stopped pecking the younger ones. Now everyone is 6 months. The group's still stay separately, and don't hang out together.

 

[Ruralhideaway]

Thanks for the great info!

I know the age gap doesn't sound that large but the 8 older chicks are huge birds. They had some advantages, lots of fresh air, bugs, and sunshine from an early age, having been hatched in August. On the other hand they are quite mild mannered, barely begun mild sparring amongst the cockerels, who all still peep. I actually plan to cut the 8 down to 5 next week. Very sweet boys so I've delayed a bit.

The younger batch of 15(oops chicken math) look tiny and vulnerable.

My space is ok. The actual inside coop area is 100 sq ft, 8 and a half feet high. The in coop brooder is under the roosts and hogs 30 inches by about 9 feet of that. On paper I guess it's adequate, but I've begun to combine the covered run into the coop. I enclosed it with clear polycarbonate roofing panels for winter. I'll be adding an open air run soon if the weather holds, otherwise in the spring. So they will have about 300sq ft of coop for 20.

@azygous I can use their brooder for a panic room in the coop, it has 4 doors I can attach open a few inches. Adding a dog crate in the run would be simple actually, I have one sitting nearby already from nice day outdoor time while the coop was under construction.

@Mrs. K Great ideas! They have a tall sun shelf in the run with a long staircase, a big dust bath, and some low roosts. I still have a barn loft full of stuff so I can easily create many more features for hiding places. So I'll work on that, sounds like fun. Had to get a new drill I still like playing with anyway, any excuse to build stuff!

Maybe having more little chicks than big chicks will work to my advantage if I understood right. 15 to 8 right now, will be 15 to 5 soon. Maybe I should wait till those cockerels leave to begin.

@oldhenlikesdogs Thank you, hard to imagine trusting things to be ok right away. In any case I have a few in the group that aren't well feathered yet so nighttime I'll likely have to separate for a bit so they have access to heating pads.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

I would keep them separated by a fence until those young ones get big enough to handle the rough stuff and to get away. It would be a few more weeks before I would start feeling comfortable leaving them together long term. I tend to be an over cautious chick mom, but I have seen what they can do to each other and I put a lot of time and money into them.

Trust your gut. You are the one seeing how the interactions are going. You will know when it feels right to leave them together.

 

[Ruralhideaway]

I'm definitely motivated to keep them safe if at all possible. In fact originally I'd planned to mostly free range as I did years ago, but just find I'm not ok with the predation risks. I'm too attached already. Thus the coop already getting expanded.

I first realized that integration would be tricky the day the little ones moved outside. The boldest bigger cockeral went right over to the brooder, checked them out, then stood back and called the others like a big roo offering up a choice bug. He saw them as food I think! Now he's the last to roost as he's laying companionably by the brooder until full dark. But that was a real wake up call. Rang the dinner bell!

 

[aart]

My 5 week olds have been in the outdoor brooder for over a week. They are face to face through the doors with the 12 or 13 week olds out there. Twice a day the littles play in the coop while the others are ranging.

I've read fairly thoroughly about integration recommendations. I can block the brooder doors open just enough for them to get away.

Go for this, make sure they know how to get in and out, then bring one bigger bird into the coop and see how it goes. I usually brood the chicks in the coop for 2-3 weeks before opening tiny doors.
Here's more of how I do it.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/integrating-new-birds-at-4-weeks-old.72603/

 

[Ruralhideaway]

Thanks @aart I'll review all that.

I put those two psycho Easter egger chicks in with a few gentler big birds today. They got pecked and put into the dust bath. It was funny, they left them alone as long as they stayed in there, but all bets were off when they ventured out.

Very interesting behavior really. The dust bath has 8 inch sides, maybe they felt it was similar to being in the brooder, where they belong in the eyes of the big birds I guess.