No, I don’t have any regrets about eating animals.

[FortCluck]

The key point of note here is the close medical monitoring. All things in moderation works for me.

My Drs are amazing and make sure everything is good while I'm staying plant based.

 

[Coopscraft]

Seventh-day Adventists, who promote a plant-based diet, although not excusively, would disagree with you! Studies have shown that they live on average 5 to 7 years longer than other Americans. Have you seen that ad that says, "Loma Linda CA has the highest concentration of people over 100"? That is a community with a lot of SDAs.

Is that because they eat less processed oils and sugars etc or less meat? The least satisfying combination of macro nutrients is half and half carb and fat which is precisely what the typical American eats. It’s the most metabolically toxic. Cut out one or the other and people do better. Cut out refined oils and carb rich plants and metabolic syndrome is curable. You can do that plant based or animal based. Either one is conscionable.

 

[Duckfarmer1]

At our friend’s Sunday dinner we ate beaver..tasted like roast beef...lol...I raise chickens, rabbits and ducks that started out to be eaten...we have only eaten a few. But as winter comes due, we will be forced to reduce a few, we have more than 100 animals....that doesn’t mean I will enjoy it..I was raised eating venison and wild rabbit and duck..but it is totally different once it’s your own animals. Something, as a new farmer, I have to come to terms with.

 

[goldysgirl]

Yikes...I hope I didn't break any rules with my debate. I must say, though, I do feel a little uneasy when some makes a religious statement as I am not religious.

To clarify, I also should say that I appreciate posts with prayers and blessings as I take it as a wonderful kindness. I just get uneasy when religious comments seem judgemental or seem to imply that everyone should/does have the same beliefs.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

It also bothers me when someone comes into a meat birds forum and demands we justify our feelings around something as sacred as life and death and as impossible as the pursuit of ethical consumption, to them in particular. It's so exhausting seeing that topic blow up every few months and trying to explain it to people who usually ask from a place of bad faith.

Fact: Everything that lives, dies. So to me... If life is to be created you also are responsible for their inevitable death. Every baby you birth, every chick you hatch, every puppy you've rescued will die.
If death is something bad then the creation of life produces something bad EVERY time. Because the latter always, every time, leads to the former.

I often rebutt with do vegans grow their own plants to avoid the millions of mice caught in combines or tractors? The wildlife shot or injured or hurt to protect the crops? The millions of acres cleared for everything from palm oil to soybeans? Every one I've spoken to think that's a ridiculous idea, even though it "saves lives". Vegans too must consume to survive. Our own need to consume can either outweigh the lives of other living things, or we could simply just embrace the call of the void so we consume no more.

Sometimes I grieve because much of ethical consumption is outside of my reach and influence. Animals are grown in cruelty, pesticides for mass crop production damage the earth, clothes I wear are sewn by foreign factory workers under slave wages, the precious metals in my laptop literally came at the expense of countless human and animal lives in impoverished and exploited regions, the electricity that runs this websites servers is generated largely by fossil fuels... THAT brings me grief. The SYSTEM brings me grief. I believe there's alternative means to this end that aren't so exploitative.

But the consumption itself? Consumption is inherit to life. And what small changes I can do to change the system, I do but I don't grieve that I consume. We are all entitled to consume. If we aren't then all life must cease because all life consumes - from humans eating meat to the vines that break the walls of my home, to the tree that shades and out-consume the sapling that dies underneath it.
So I don't feel bad about it. If death isn't negative and consumption a requirement, all that's left to consider is the experiences and ripple effects of the things we consume. Who cried today to bring you that burger? What pain was experienced? Minimizing that matters to me.

Some vegans have argued to me that animal life can perceive it's own pain, death and grieve... But... Plants speak. They send out warning notices to other plants when they are being attacked. They send signals to each other about water and fungi and nutrients and even talk to bees and animals to continue their lives and protect them. The irony of veganism arguing "We can't really understand animals emotional pain because they don't grieve like we do but still shouldn't consume them cause they might be grieving" but "We can't understand plants pain but should still eat them" is frustrating to me.

Life means consumption. Consumption means death for SOMETHING. It's only what happens in between that matters. If death is inherently bad, or consumption of life is, then all life is. End of story. I simply don't believe that life - or death is bad. Life and death itself simply... Is.

/Endrant

 

[Barbs Girls]

It also bothers me when someone comes into a meat birds forum and demands we justify our feelings around something as sacred as life and death and as impossible as the pursuit of ethical consumption, to them in particular. It's so exhausting seeing that topic blow up every few months and trying to explain it to people who usually ask from a place of bad faith.

Fact: Everything that lives, dies. So to me... If life is to be created you also are responsible for their inevitable death. Every baby you birth, every chick you hatch, every puppy you've rescued will die.
If death is something bad then the creation of life produces something bad EVERY time. Because the latter always, every time, leads to the former.

I often rebutt with do vegans grow their own plants to avoid the millions of mice caught in combines or tractors? The wildlife shot or injured or hurt to protect the crops? The millions of acres cleared for everything from palm oil to soybeans? Every one I've spoken to think that's a ridiculous idea, even though it "saves lives". Vegans too must consume to survive. Our own need to consume can either outweigh the lives of other living things, or we could simply just embrace the call of the void so we consume no more.

Sometimes I grieve because much of ethical consumption is outside of my reach and influence. Animals are grown in cruelty, pesticides for mass crop production damage the earth, clothes I wear are sewn by foreign factory workers under slave wages, the precious metals in my laptop literally came at the expense of countless human and animal lives in impoverished and exploited regions, the electricity that runs this websites servers is generated largely by fossil fuels... THAT brings me grief. The SYSTEM brings me grief. I believe there's alternative means to this end that aren't so exploitative.

But the consumption itself? Consumption is inherit to life. And what small changes I can do to change the system, I do but I don't grieve that I consume. We are all entitled to consume. If we aren't then all life must cease because all life consumes - from humans eating meat to the vines that break the walls of my home, to the tree that shades and out-consume the sapling that dies underneath it.
So I don't feel bad about it. If death isn't negative and consumption a requirement, all that's left to consider is the experiences and ripple effects of the things we consume. Who cried today to bring you that burger? What pain was experienced? Minimizing that matters to me.

Some vegans have argued to me that animal life can perceive it's own pain, death and grieve... But... Plants speak. They send out warning notices to other plants when they are being attacked. They send signals to each other about water and fungi and nutrients and even talk to bees and animals to continue their lives and protect them. The irony of veganism arguing "We can't really understand animals emotional pain because they don't grieve like we do but still shouldn't consume them cause they might be grieving" but "We can't understand plants pain but should still eat them" is frustrating to me.

Life means consumption. Consumption means death for SOMETHING. It's only what happens in between that matters. If death is inherently bad, or consumption of life is, then all life is. End of story. I simply don't believe that life - or death is bad. Life and death itself simply... Is.

/Endrant

You may just be my hero.... well said!

 

[Skippersnh]

I don't know what most of the big words mean on this thread I should have finished school

 

[BigBlueHen53]

Is that because they eat less processed oils and sugars etc or less meat? The least satisfying combination of macro nutrients is half and half carb and fat which is precisely what the typical American eats. It’s the most metabolically toxic. Cut out one or the other and people do better. Cut out refined oils and carb rich plants and metabolic syndrome is curable. You can do that plant based or animal based. Either one is conscionable.

You make a good point with your question. Besides encouraging a balanced, plant-based diet, Adventists also shun smoking and alcohol, and encourage an otherwise balanced lifestyle that includes drinking water rather than sugary drinks, getting plenty of fresh air and exercise, the moderate exposure to sunlight, temperance in diet (not overeating, for example), a healthy social life, generosity and trust in God. These are admirable goals but this is not, of course, to claim that all succeed in adhering to them. Any and all of these could certainly be factors that might have and probably did contribute to the results of the study. Simply abstaining from meat probably could not have accounted for the results, because it's impossible to control all factors when studying groups of people. Thank you for pointing that out.

 

[Kiki]

Grow your own is a great idea. I am trying to do that within the confines of my scale. I have only 1/3 acre. I have actually been thinking lately: I wonder if backyard poultry could be a big part of the solution to ecologically unsound meat production. 3 leghorns per person could provide a lot of healthy fat and protein in the form of eggs. That’s 12 birds in the average North American back yard which is very doable.

Quail.

 

[blackandtan]

In consideration of those who may be atheist, agnostic or followers of another faith and to comply with the BYC guidelines regarding 'sensitive' subjects, it would be thoughtful if you confine your religious beliefs to the appropriate threads.

Thank you @Shadrach!