Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[schnebbles]

I'm posting this from a doctor that someone on the silkie facebook page put me in touch with, advise for paralysis in my silkie who I'm sure has mareks -

"Curcumin with Bioperine as close to 1000 mg Cap or Tab that you can get 1 3 x a day. You can get this at any store that sells Quality Vitamins and Health Stuff. Give1 81 MG Aspirin 3 x a day and see what happens"

in a later post he said "
Curcumin is the active ingredient in the Asian Spice Turmeric. Having the Bioperine a patented extract of the Black Peppercorn makes the Curcumin 2000 times more Bio-available.
The strength of what you got needs to be at or around 1000 mg total Curcumin and Bioperine combined."
Haunted- I recall you recommending tumeric.
He said recovery is 50/50 or so. I bought liquid tumeric but need to see about getting exactly what he recommended.
A link to what I found to buy - wow, getting 2 caps of this in her 3x a day would be work!
http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-tu...g-60-capsules-1/?pd_section=pr#productDetails

 

[julie0477]

Good news from my vet. The necropsy I had done on my roo showed no parasites and no infection - nothing to suggest disease. She will get a full report on Monday but it's looking good. I think if it were mareks at the very least they would have found cocci due to the effects on the immune system. Haunted's first reaction to my Roos case was probably not mareks. Sounds like she was likely right .

 

[schnebbles]

good! I know that's what I have. I'm wondering if I picked it up at a fair. It's so frustrating, all the questions that go thru your mind when you think you are doing everything right!

 

[salt and pepper]

Sulfadimethoxine (Di-Methos, Albon, and Sulfamed G) is the best drug for coryza if that is what your chickens have. Sulmet can be used, but is hard on kidneys and liver. Here are 2 suppliers online, the first one has both liquid and powder if you scroll down: http://www.qcsupply.com/sulfadimethoxine-oral-solution-gallon.html

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail....=34525656043&gclid=CL2firrg_7kCFYwWMgodmmIAFg

Thank you!

 

[Nambroth]

I'm posting this from a doctor that someone on the silkie facebook page put me in touch with, advise for paralysis in my silkie who I'm sure has mareks -

"Curcumin with Bioperine as close to 1000 mg Cap or Tab that you can get 1 3 x a day. You can get this at any store that sells Quality Vitamins and Health Stuff. Give1 81 MG Aspirin 3 x a day and see what happens"

in a later post he said "
Curcumin is the active ingredient in the Asian Spice Turmeric. Having the Bioperine a patented extract of the Black Peppercorn makes the Curcumin 2000 times more Bio-available.
The strength of what you got needs to be at or around 1000 mg total Curcumin and Bioperine combined."
Haunted- I recall you recommending tumeric.
He said recovery is 50/50 or so. I bought liquid tumeric but need to see about getting exactly what he recommended.
A link to what I found to buy - wow, getting 2 caps of this in her 3x a day would be work!
http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-tu...g-60-capsules-1/?pd_section=pr#productDetails

Gosh, I sure wish I hadn't lost my bookmarks some months ago! I did read a research paper about the benefits of tumeric, and it is true that black pepper (ground from black peppercorns) makes the tumeric more available to the body. This was for humans but I don't think there are any known negative side effects of offering tumeric+black pepper. If it cannot hurt, it is worth a try, because what else can be done that you aren't already doing, right? I will see if I can find that paper again... (as always, listen to a licensed vet over my advice if you hear otherwise!)

Good news from my vet. The necropsy I had done on my roo showed no parasites and no infection - nothing to suggest disease. She will get a full report on Monday but it's looking good. I think if it were mareks at the very least they would have found cocci due to the effects on the immune system. Haunted's first reaction to my Roos case was probably not mareks. Sounds like she was likely right

.

I know we mention cocci on here a lot, and it's true that Marek's does a number on the bird's immune system, but (and this is for the benefit of other readers too, not necessarily aimed at you Julie!) the lack of cocci findings in a necropsy should never be an indicator of Marek's not being present.



A few things to bear in mind for those that get their bird necropsied:

--A gross necropsy on a bird that has visceral Marek's will usually show signs of tumorous lymphomas (or the pre-stages of this condition) but other forms of Marek's may leave no visible physical evidence during necropsy. Marek's lymphomas are most commonly found on (but not limited to) the ovary (in hens), spleen, liver, kidneys, lungs, heart, thymus, proventriculus (this is an area just before the gizzard, and may appear abnormal). The gizzard may also display discoloration inside as a reaction.

--The finding of lymphomatic tumors is often a sign of Marek's but it is important that there are other diseases that can cause such lymphomas (see: Avian Viral Lymphoid Leukosis). Marek's is just usually the diagnosis because it is the most common disease to cause lymphomas of this nature, and in certain locations within the body. The current trend of thought by professionals is that Marek's is much more common than many people realize, and may account for a good number of "unexplained" chicken deaths.

--A necropsy examining the sciatic nerve may reveal lesions which can indicate Marek's, but not all birds that develop paralysis show sciatic nerve lesions, even under microscope examination. My rooster that developed aggressive Marek's lymphomas and complete paralysis of both legs did not have any evidence based on sciatic nerve examination, even by a laboratory (the nerve was sent out for analysis).

--A gross necropsy can be a good launching point for diagnosis, but without a histology and especially a blood test, it is a very educated guess at best, and if the necropsy is inconclusive, it is really hard to say.


None of this is intended to scare anyone, nor to make anyone suspect Marek's where there is none... I just to educate about what all this necropsy stuff means. The only reason I keep emphasizing the blood test is that for many individuals, it may mean the difference between "I now have a closed flock" and "I am clear to breed and sell chickens now".
As there are many very good breeders here on BYC, and many wanting to get into breeding (and/or showing and/or selling etc)... and especially those breeding or working on endangered breeds... it's can very important to know exactly what your flock is carrying (or not carrying).
I know not everyone can afford or even find a way to get blood drawn for the test, but if you are able to do it, it's worth considering if you are uncertain if your flock has Marek's or other infectious viral diseases or not. Education is the best weapon we have against this and other disease!

 

[julie0477]

I understand and agree. I would've done the blood test but the only symptoms my bird showed was sudden inability to walk. Literally one day fine the next day couldn't stand at all. Found him way out under the trees where they dust bathe. Far from the coop so earlier in the day he was well enough to walk there. At that point I already thought mareks was a possibility. I couldn't find any sign of injury UNTIL I had to get the bird wet several days later I found scrapes under the feathers. The vet did an X-ray and found what looked like a fracture in the spine. So everything at that point pointed to injury but I wanted the necropsy to be sure. I thought it would give me a better pic of what's going on in my flock and I could not afford both tests. So in my case with all the evidence together I think I'm likely clear from mareks (unless something else shows up in the full report) but I am not saying a bird free of cocci or other secondary infection is necessarily free from mareks.

 

[Nambroth]

I understand and agree. I would've done the blood test but the only symptoms my bird showed was sudden inability to walk. Literally one day fine the next day couldn't stand at all. Found him way out under the trees where they dust bathe. Far from the coop so earlier in the day he was well enough to walk there. At that point I already thought mareks was a possibility. I couldn't find any sign of injury UNTIL I had to get the bird wet several days later I found scrapes under the feathers. The vet did an X-ray and found what looked like a fracture in the spine. So everything at that point pointed to injury but I wanted the necropsy to be sure. I thought it would give me a better pic of what's going on in my flock and I could not afford both tests. So in my case with all the evidence together I think I'm likely clear from mareks (unless something else shows up in the full report) but I am not saying a bird free of cocci or other secondary infection is necessarily free from mareks.

I agree-- if I were in your position I would make the same conclusions. I just know we get a lot of readers and lurkers on this thread that come here for information, which is why I wanted to go in depth a bit more.

 

[julie0477]

Yeah I was just relieved. I should have clarified a bit more. Thanks for covering all the bases for me

 

[seminolewind]

More trivia... 1ml of water equals one gram, but 1ml of mercury equals 13.6 grams. Density, mass, volume, it all makes me feel like I am not smarter than a fith grader, lol.

And because I have a hard time wrapping my brain around this stuff I decided to weight 3.5 tablespoons of corn starch and it does weigh almost exactly 1 ounce.

-Kathy

I knew there was a way to drive you crazy!!!

 

[seminolewind]

I understand and agree. I would've done the blood test but the only symptoms my bird showed was sudden inability to walk. Literally one day fine the next day couldn't stand at all. Found him way out under the trees where they dust bathe. Far from the coop so earlier in the day he was well enough to walk there. At that point I already thought mareks was a possibility. I couldn't find any sign of injury UNTIL I had to get the bird wet several days later I found scrapes under the feathers. The vet did an X-ray and found what looked like a fracture in the spine. So everything at that point pointed to injury but I wanted the necropsy to be sure. I thought it would give me a better pic of what's going on in my flock and I could not afford both tests. So in my case with all the evidence together I think I'm likely clear from mareks (unless something else shows up in the full report) but I am not saying a bird free of cocci or other secondary infection is necessarily free from mareks.

Sheesh, I'm so glad someone doesn't have it! I hope your bird is okay.