Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[seminolewind]

Nambroth, didn't want to quote the whole necropsy post, but I think it was really good and easy to understand.

From what I gather about cocci (coccidiosis) , chickens carry it, it's in the dirt. Marek's birds are much more susceptible to cocci and any opportunistic bacteria or fungus. I had 3 eight weeks olds , vaccinated for Marek's, in an exposed flock. 2 dropped dead over night, then one more. Enteritis. Could be a strain of cocci or a bacteria that got into intestine and killed the wall. When I picked them up, blood came out, like a hemorrhage. This is one reason I like sulfadimethoxine because it can cover some of both.

Then, 3 got eye infections and died a few days later. One I brought into the house and put her in my bedroom and she got Tylan and got better and is a real honey, but one eye always looks a bit sleepier than the other.
This year I hatched a group of chicks from my exposed hens, they all did well, 8 months old now. But at around 6 weeks old, I lost 2 to coccidiosis. Seems like they were fine the day and the next day, dead. I tried to save one, but he did die. I think that even tho they were Marek's resistant, cocci ran rampant when they got it.

Okay, I'm rambling. I just did Bumblefoot surgery and got a big kernel out. Talk about gross.

 

[Nambroth]

Yes, absolutely... I think that Marek's birds are immune-compromised (immune-suppressed?) and any stress can make this worse. Any other virus, bacteria, fungus, parasite... loves to take advantage of this in a host. I think cocci is especially good at this because it is so common in the soil, and large numbers easily overwhelm our birds.

I personally have not had to deal with it myself, but in my reading over the years (cocci was one of the first things I delved into when researching chickens, before my first chicks came home) it seems that chicks that are raised with a broody in a good environment (meaning well-kept) are less susceptible to it. I know we have all raised chicks in our Marek's flocks in such a way to give them the best chance for building resistance, but if I may ask: anyone that has raised chicks in a Marek's flock, have you ever raised them solely with a broody hen? What is your experience with vigor and disease resistance in these chicks? I have zero experience with my own broody hens so I am only curious. I don't plan on breeding birds.. at least not for a long while until I have more room since I have to keep a closed flock, but I am wondering if there is more harm or more merit in letting a broody raise chicks with Marek's around (in terms of NOT only Marek's, but other disease such as cocci), or if it's better to raise them indoors and gradually expose them to all of the nasties in their environment. I know that for the best chance against Marek's it's ideal not to expose the vaccinated chicks for at least the first three weeks (longer is better) but I wonder how this effects their ability to deal with things like cocci.

I am just rambling! Please don't take any of this post as advice! My mind is wandering and wondering.

 

[schnebbles]

How do you decide when to put them down? I'm having a hard time here. She wants to move and can't, I'm not sure if it's in her wing or not, can't quite tell. I feel bad for her.

The tumeric, while a good idea, I highly doubt it will be better than the steroids but it might. I have to order it so it will be a couple days.

 

[julie0477]

Thanks Seminole - I had my roo euthanized as he wasn't recovering and had to sit in a box constantly, not an ideal chicken life, but at least it's good news for the rest of the flock.

 

[schnebbles]

My silkie really can't move either. I put her outside today for a while which was ok because the others stayed near but then when they went in the coop, she didn't even try to move that way. I have her back inside. Thought some fresh air and being around her friends might help her feel better at least.

 

[Nambroth]

How do you decide when to put them down? I'm having a hard time here. She wants to move and can't, I'm not sure if it's in her wing or not, can't quite tell. I feel bad for her.

The tumeric, while a good idea, I highly doubt it will be better than the steroids but it might. I have to order it so it will be a couple days.

Yeah, tumeric+pepper is sort of a long-term slow thing, if it does help. Not at all the same as steroids!!

That's really tough. I apologize if you already mentioned it (my memory is shot tonight!) but is she only demonstrating paralysis? No other problems?
Not to give you false hope, but some have had birds "recover" from this and go on to live mostly normal lives, at least for a few months. Some have had them last longer before succumbing to secondary disease or other forms of Marek's such as ocular.
Not to seem a downer, either, but some don't recover, or go downhill.
It's a very personal choice, and a hard one!! If you aren't 100% sure it's Marek's.. it could be something she could recover from entirely. It's just impossible to know.

Does she seem to be bright, cheerful, happy, eating? Just can't move?

With my roo, it was obvious when his quality of life went downhill. He developed aggressive lymphatic Marek's tumors and within days he could no longer breathe (we later found out there was a large tumor on his heart). It was very sad and I couldn't stand to see him struggle for the tiny hope I had that he'd pull through.

I don't envy your choice. Best wishes to you, you're both in my thoughts.

 

[schnebbles]

Jennifer - thanks. I read your chicken page and it was so cute!

Yes, leg paralysis. Started last saturday with slight limping. She is eating and seems ok, talks to me, seemed to like going outside today.

I just feel like it's my bantam cochin all over - that was 6-7 weeks ago or so. She ate until the day she died. I guess I'll order the tumeric/pepper and see how it goes. I think Haunted has had some recover as well, I sent her a message too. They have been on duramycin for sneezing/congestion, they are done with that now. She sounds like she could still have a bit of it, no sneezing tho.

I sure think it's marek's since it's exactly the same as the other one. And this girl has probably been the sneeziest of all. Started almost as soon as I got them when it got cooler out. She also developed crossbeak but I keep it trimmed and I don't think that has anything to do with it.

I just feel so bad seeing her try to move and her leg won't work.

 

[salt and pepper]

This is just awesome.... NOT!!! One of my fav hens is now acting "off" She hasn't laid in weeks, and has now stopped eating, but is drinking a lot. She is also fairly lethargic. I'm treating for Cocci, hoping that thats what it is. Ordering the meds for the other chickens today.

 

[schnebbles]

salt & pepper - do you think you have mareks too?

 

[ranchokelly]

I have to admit I haven't read all 120 pages of this thread - I'm going cross-eyed trying to get through as much as I can, in hopes of saving my hen who just started the paralysis stage of Marek's. I only have 7 hens - they are pets and dear to me.

I've put down 4 roosters after they all got the same symptoms of one and then two leg paralysis. The first was tested afterward, and got a positive Marek's ID. He was the one that brought it in, but not before my vaccinated hens hatched a bunch of eggs with him. Before the disease hit him, one of the sons of the original rooster hatched three more with the girls. The rooster of that 3 got the limp 2 months ago, and I have two hens that are about 5-6 months old. I had hoped they were somehow immune, and have gotten attached, but one started limping this week.

I've read some posts that say vaccinating at any point can help - that it may stop the advance of the disease or tumors. My only choice seems to be buying 1000 doses at $50+ delivered, so I'm wondering if it would be a total waste of time? Any other thoughts or experiences of chickens surviving, and if late vaccines might help?
I see miraculous posts of chickens turning around. I'm trying hypericum perf without luck.

Any advice appreciated!