Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[julie0477]

1/4 tsp doesn't sound right. 1/2 to 3/4 level is what I remember.

that's exactly what I was thinking. That doesn't sound like enough.

 

[fuzziecreatures]

Partial Report from Penn State

Diagnosis : Marek's Disease - visceral form
Lab Findings
Greatly enlarged, pale, liver with irregular white foci which takes up almost 90% of the coelomic cavity.
Enlarged pale pink spleen with multiple irregular white foci present.
Greatly enlarged, pale, mottled kidneys.
Irregular, enlarged, pink harderian gland
Mild yellow peritonitis with white pinpoint foci present
Ovary appears to be infiltrated with irregular cream-colored neoplastic tissue. No follicles are present.
No visible lesions in peripheral nerves, bursa or other tissues.

Histopathology
Liver, spleen, intestines, trachea: neoplastic lymphocytes had largely disrupted and overtaken normal tissue architecture. The neoplastic cells show diffuse degeneration, but appear to be somewhat pleomorphic.

Microbiology
Aerobic culture and salmonella culture - no growth
Mycoplasma pending

Virology
Avian Influenza - pending

Parasitology
Positive for ascarid type ova at a count of 1,400/gram of feces using the Modified McMaster Technique

So, yes it's Marek's.

Deworming everyone with wazine 10/3. Or maybe I should do Ivermectin.... What is the withdrawl on meat and eggs with Ivermectin? I plan on sending boys to freezer camp... oh, I can use the meat right? Just not any organs with tumors right?

 

[CeeJ]

quote name="seminolewind" url="/t/741957/not-an-emergency-mareks-in-the-flock/1140#post_12093243"] Not right to me either.  I've heard this 1/4 tsp dose as well, and always thought it was a teaspoon per gallon.  And there's a smaller dose as a preventative.
[/quote]
Two seperate vets gave me that dosing. But when they were treated and I was still losing them I did up it to 1/2 tsp/gallon. My chicks are on their 4 day vitamin break from cored, so I will do more research on the correct doseage. I can up their second round. The older group is more preventative so I will stick to the 1/4 rounded teaspoon. The one vet said I could poison them by giving to much. I will go read the cocci thread again too.

 

[casportpony]

First let me start by saying that I mean no offense to anyone and I apologize in advance if I have upset you, but I cannot help myself when it comes to matters of dosing, lol. Second, if I have made an error in my math, please let me know and I'll fix it.

The Corid dose for treatment is *not* 1/2 teaspoon, not sure who came up with that, but it's wrong and people keep repeating it. FYI, I used to tell people that the dose was 1/2 teaspoon and for that I was wrong and I feel really bad about it. From now on I will not repeat things I have read here on BYC unless I have also read that same info from a reliable, published source.
The info below is from a thread I started:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/users/subscriptions/index/view/threads

Due to some confusion on dose amounts regarding the powder, I decided to do some research and this is what I have so far. For those of you that use powder Corid, if you have been using 1/2 teaspoon per gallon (~270mg) you haven't been using enough.

The preventative dose (.006%) for Corid Powder is 1/3 teaspoon.
The preventative dose (.006%) for Corid liquid is 1/2 teaspoon.

The moderate outbreak dose (.012%) for Corid Powder is 3/4 teaspoon.
The moderate outbreak dose (.012%) for Corid liquid is 1 teaspoon.

The severe outbreak dose (.024%) for Corid Powder is 1.5 teaspoons
The severe outbreak dose (.024%) for Corid liquid is 2 teaspoon.

Corid mixing instructions for preventative (.006%) and moderate (.012%) outbreak dosing.
http://www.corid.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/CORID Slim Jim-All.pdf

Amprol 20% powder:
http://www.asp-inc.com/products/documents/prodinfo/a/amp128.pdf

Amprol 9.6% liquid:
http://www.asp-inc.com/products/documents/prodinfo/a/amp96.pdf

FDA recommendations:
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/animaldrugsatfda/details.cfm?dn=013-149
"Chickens
Indications: For the treatment of coccidiosis.
Amount: Administer at the 0.012 percent level in drinking water as soon as coccidiosis is diagnosed and continue for 3 to 5 days (in severe outbreaks, give amprolium at the 0.024 percent level); continue with 0.006 percent amprolium-medicated water for an additional 1 to 2 weeks."

And this link has these instructions:
http://www.drugs.com/vet/amprol-9-6-solution-can.html
"Poultry - as Soon As Caecal Coccidiosis Is Diagnosed, Give 0.024% Amprolium In The Drinking Water For 5 To 7 Days. Continue The Treatment With 0.006% Amprolium Medicated Water For An Additional One To Two Weeks. No Other Source Of Drinking Water Should Be Available To The Birds During This Time."

Here's the math, let me know if I made an error.

• There are 200mg of amprolium in every 1 gram of powder.
• 1 ounce = 3.5 tablespoons = 28.35 grams
• 200mg x 28.35 = 5670mg in 3.5 tablespoons of powder.
• There are 10.5 teaspoons in 3.5 tablespoons
• There are 21 1/2 teaspoons in 10.5 teaspoons
• 5670mg divided by 21 1/2 teaspoons = ~270mg per 1/2 teaspoon
• There are two 1/4 teaspoons per 1/2 teaspoon
• 270 mg divided by 2 = 135mg per 1/4 teaspoon

Amount of Amprolium (Corid or Amprol) powder per 1/4 teaspoon
​

• One 1/4 teaspoon = 135 mg
• 1/2 teaspoon = 270 mg
• 3/4 teaspoon =405 mg
• 1 teaspoon = 540 mg
• 1 & 1/4 teaspoons = 675 mg
• 1 & 1/2 teaspoons = 810 mg
• 1 & 3/4 teaspoons = 945 mg
• 2 teaspoons= 1080 mg

Amount of Amprolium (Corid or Amprol) liquid per 1/4 teaspoon
​

• One 1/4 teaspoon = 120 mg
• 1/2 teaspoon = 240 mg
• 3/4 teaspoons = 360 mg
• 1 teaspoon = 480 mg
• 1 & 1/4 teaspoons = 600 mg
• 1 & 1/2 teaspoons = 720 mg
• 1 & 3/4 teaspoons = 840
• 2 teaspoons = 960 mg

There are 4.92892ml/teaspoon, but the numbers above were calculated using 5ml/teaspoon

​

Here is what's in 1-10ml of the liquid

• 1ml = 96mg
• 2ml = 192mg
• 3ml = 288mg
• 4ml = 384mg
• 5ml = 480mg
• 6ml = 576mg
• 7ml = 672mg
• 8ml = 768mg
• 9ml = 864mg
• 10ml = 960mg

Bottom line, 1 teaspoon (540mg) of powder is equal to 5.625ml of liquid and 1/2 teaspoon powder (270mg) is equal to 2.8125ml liquid.

1/2 teaspoon of 20% powder = 2.8125ml of 9.6% liquid - Both have 270mg of amprolium.
3/4 teaspoon of 20% powder = 4.21875ml of 9.6% liquid - Both have 405mg of amprolium.
1 teaspoon of 20% powder = 5.625ml of 9.6% liquid - Both have 540mg of amprolium.
1.5 teaspoons of 20% powder =8.4375ml of 9.6% liquid - Both have 810mg of amprolium.
1.75 teaspoons of 20% powder = 9.84375ml of 9.6% liquid - Both have 945mg of amprolium.
2 teaspoons of 20% powder = 11.25ml of 9.6% liquid - Both have 1080mg of amprolium.



And if that doesn't convince people, here is another way I did it:

From:
http://www.asp-inc.com/products/documents/prodinfo/a/amp128.pdf:

Dosage Level Mixing Directions
0.024% Dissolve 8 ounces of AMPROL 128 20% Soluble Powder in about five gallons of water in a 50-gallon medication barrel. Stir, then add water to the 50 gallon mark. Stir thoroughly.
0.012% Follow same directions as above but use 4 ounces of AMPROL 128 20% Soluble Powder.
0.006% Follow same directions as above but use 2 ounces of AMPROL 128 20% Soluble Powder.

Facts

• One pack = 10 oz. (283.5 grams)
• One ounce = 28.35 grams
• One ounce of powder = ~3.5 tablespoons
• 200mg amprolium per 1 gram

My twisted math for the .024% level
If 8 ounces (28.35g x 8 = 226.8 grams) are needed for 50 gallons, then 1/50 of that is needed for 1 gallon, right? So that would be 226.8 grams divided by 50 = 4.536 grams per gallon. (doing this as I type, so correct me if I'm wrong, please!)

So how much does a teaspoon of Corid or Amprol powder weigh? Anyone know? Well, time to break out my gram scale and do some weighing... also have a call into the mfg of Corid and I'm expecting a call back from them.

Just got a call back from them and it is 4.536 grams per gallon. He also said that it's a very safe product and the risk of overdosing is very slim.

-Kathy


Disclaimer:
In the past I have treated my chicken chicks with 2 teaspoons of the liquid for 5-7 days, that's it, but I *might* try the .006% follow up the next time I have to treat chicks.

 

[casportpony]

Corid info for .012% level. Double the amounts for .024%.

 

[schnebbles]

so what do you do if you are force to get rid of birds possibly exposed to mareks? I might have to leave where I live and can't take birds. this is a bad situation.

 

[CeeJ]

Wow

First let me start by saying that I mean no offense to anyone and I apologize in advance if I have upset you, but I cannot help myself when it comes to matters of dosing, lol. Second, if I have made an error in my math, please let me know and I'll fix it.

The Corid dose for treatment is *not* 1/2 teaspoon, not sure who came up with that, but it's wrong and people keep repeating it. FYI, I used to tell people that the dose was 1/2 teaspoon and for that I was wrong and I feel really bad about it. From now on I will not repeat things I have read here on BYC unless I have also read that same info from a reliable, published source.
[rule]The info below is from a thread I started:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/users/subscriptions/index/view/threads

Due to some confusion on dose amounts regarding the powder, I decided to do some research and this is what I have so far. For those of you that use powder Corid, if you have been using 1/2 teaspoon per gallon (~270mg) you haven't been using enough.

The preventative dose (.006%) for Corid Powder is 1/3 teaspoon.
The preventative dose (.006%) for Corid liquid is 1/2 teaspoon.

The moderate outbreak dose (.012%) for Corid Powder is 3/4 teaspoon.
The moderate outbreak dose (.012%) for Corid liquid is 1 teaspoon.

The severe outbreak dose (.024%) for Corid Powder is 1.5 teaspoons
The severe outbreak dose (.024%) for Corid liquid is 2 teaspoon.

Corid mixing instructions for preventative (.006%) and moderate (.012%) outbreak dosing.
http://www.corid.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/CORID Slim Jim-All.pdf

Amprol 20% powder:
http://www.asp-inc.com/products/documents/prodinfo/a/amp128.pdf

Amprol 9.6% liquid:
http://www.asp-inc.com/products/documents/prodinfo/a/amp96.pdf

FDA recommendations:
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/animaldrugsatfda/details.cfm?dn=013-149
"Chickens
Indications: For the treatment of coccidiosis.
Amount: Administer at the 0.012 percent level in drinking water as soon as coccidiosis is diagnosed and continue for 3 to 5 days (in severe outbreaks, give amprolium at the 0.024 percent level); continue with 0.006 percent amprolium-medicated water for an additional 1 to 2 weeks."

And this link has these instructions:
http://www.drugs.com/vet/amprol-9-6-solution-can.html
"Poultry - as Soon As Caecal Coccidiosis Is Diagnosed, Give 0.024% Amprolium In The Drinking Water For 5 To 7 Days. Continue The Treatment With 0.006% Amprolium Medicated Water For An Additional One To Two Weeks. No Other Source Of Drinking Water Should Be Available To The Birds During This Time."

Here's the math, let me know if I made an error.

• There are 200mg of amprolium in every 1 gram of powder.
• 1 ounce = 3.5 tablespoons = 28.35 grams
• 200mg x 28.35 = 5670mg in 3.5 tablespoons of powder.
• There are 10.5 teaspoons in 3.5 tablespoons
• There are 21 1/2 teaspoons in 10.5 teaspoons
• 5670mg divided by 21 1/2 teaspoons = ~270mg per 1/2 teaspoon
• There are two 1/4 teaspoons per 1/2 teaspoon
• 270 mg divided by 2 = 135mg per 1/4 teaspoon

[rule]

Amount of Amprolium (Corid or Amprol) powder per 1/4 teaspoon​

• One 1/4 teaspoon = 135 mg
• 1/2 teaspoon = 270 mg
• 3/4 teaspoon =405 mg
• 1 teaspoon = 540 mg
• 1 & 1/4 teaspoons = 675 mg
• 1 & 1/2 teaspoons = 810 mg
• 1 & 3/4 teaspoons = 945 mg
• 2 teaspoons= 1080 mg

[rule]

Amount of Amprolium (Corid or Amprol) liquid per 1/4 teaspoon​

• One 1/4 teaspoon = 120 mg
• 1/2 teaspoon = 240 mg
• 3/4 teaspoons = 360 mg
• 1 teaspoon = 480 mg
• 1 & 1/4 teaspoons = 600 mg
• 1 & 1/2 teaspoons = 720 mg
• 1 & 3/4 teaspoons = 840
• 2 teaspoons = 960 mg

There are 4.92892ml/teaspoon, but the numbers above were calculated using 5ml/teaspoon

Here is what's in 1-10ml of the liquid

• 1ml = 96mg
• 2ml = 192mg
• 3ml = 288mg
• 4ml = 384mg
• 5ml = 480mg
• 6ml = 576mg
• 7ml = 672mg
• 8ml = 768mg
• 9ml = 864mg
• 10ml = 960mg

Bottom line, 1 teaspoon (540mg) of powder is equal to 5.625ml of liquid and 1/2 teaspoon powder (270mg) is equal to 2.8125ml liquid.

1/2 teaspoon of 20% powder = 2.8125ml of 9.6% liquid - Both have 270mg of amprolium.
3/4 teaspoon of 20% powder = 4.21875ml of 9.6% liquid - Both have 405mg of amprolium.
1 teaspoon of 20% powder = 5.625ml of 9.6% liquid - Both have 540mg of amprolium.
1.5 teaspoons of 20% powder =8.4375ml of 9.6% liquid - Both have 810mg of amprolium.
1.75 teaspoons of 20% powder = 9.84375ml of 9.6% liquid - Both have 945mg of amprolium.
2 teaspoons of 20% powder = 11.25ml of 9.6% liquid - Both have 1080mg of amprolium.


[rule]
And if that doesn't convince people, here is another way I did it:

From:
http://www.asp-inc.com/products/documents/prodinfo/a/amp128.pdf:

Dosage Level Mixing Directions
0.024% Dissolve 8 ounces of AMPROL 128 20% Soluble Powder in about five gallons of water in a 50-gallon medication barrel. Stir, then add water to the 50 gallon mark. Stir thoroughly.
0.012% Follow same directions as above but use 4 ounces of AMPROL 128 20% Soluble Powder.
0.006% Follow same directions as above but use 2 ounces of AMPROL 128 20% Soluble Powder.

Facts

• One pack = 10 oz. (283.5 grams)
• One ounce = 28.35 grams
• One ounce of powder = ~3.5 tablespoons
• 200mg amprolium per 1 gram

My twisted math for the .024% level
If 8 ounces (28.35g x 8 = 226.8 grams) are needed for 50 gallons, then 1/50 of that is needed for 1 gallon, right? So that would be 226.8 grams divided by 50 = 4.536 grams per gallon. (doing this as I type, so correct me if I'm wrong, please!)

So how much does a teaspoon of Corid or Amprol powder weigh? Anyone know? Well, time to break out my gram scale and do some weighing... also have a call into the mfg of Corid and I'm expecting a call back from them.

Just got a call back from them and it is 4.536 grams per gallon. He also said that it's a very safe product and the risk of overdosing is very slim.

-Kathy


Disclaimer:
In the past I have treated my chicken chicks with 2 teaspoons of the liquid for 5-7 days, that's it, but I *might* try the .006% follow up the next time I have to treat chicks.

,

Wow! Thanks so much for all that info. I wasn't questioning what you all were saying about the does I was giving being to weak. As I said those directions came from 2 seperate vets. I think there is some confusion out there in the chicken world as the package is labeled for calves not chickens. At least my package is. The above info actually speaks to poultry.

I am still confused as, unless I've read this wrong, the dose for calves and chickens appears to be the same. That doesn't seem possible to my little brain.

Based on all this info, I think it's best to skip the 4 day break and get these babies treated correctly once and for all.

Again, thank you so much for all this info.

 

[casportpony]

The product sold in the US is labeled for cattle, but the product sold in Canada is labeled for both. I'm not sure why, but birds get more of many medicines than cattle, horses, goats, etc. Bottom line is if one believes that the correct dose of the liquid Corid is 9.5-10ml, then the powder dose is 1.5 teaspoons and if one thinks the liquid dose is 5ml, the powder dose is 3/4 teaspoon.

-Kathy

 

[CeeJ]

The product sold in the US is labeled for cattle, but the product sold in Canada is labeled for both. I'm not sure why, but birds get more of many medicines than cattle, horses, goats, etc. Bottom line is if one believes that the correct dose of the liquid Corid is 9.5-10ml, then the powder dose is 1.5 teaspoons and if one thinks the liquid dose is 5ml, the powder dose is 3/4 teaspoon.

-Kathy

Thanks again! You probably just saved my 9 remaining chicks!!

 

[CeeJ]

I ha

so what do you do if you are force to get rid of birds possibly exposed to mareks?  I might have to leave where I live and can't take birds.  this is a bad situation.

I have way less experience than most here, but wouldn't it be possible to try to rehome them to someone else with confirmed mareks? Are they all showing symptoms, or just carriers?