Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[Sonya9]

@Sonya9 ...if by "number of adolescents that are more susceptible" you mean the number of chicks that are between 8 - 20 weeks old (the age at which the incidence of contracting
Marek's is highest), then yes it does.

Since Marek's often targets adolescents, and there are more adolescents in the summer then that could account for the increase in cases.

On the other hand sunlight has been linked to causing herpes simplex outbreaks in humans, it appears to be triggered by skin exposed to sunlight. Course chickens are covered in feathers so one would not expect their skin to absorb as much UV.

Also plenty of chicks are born in the summer months, and if they live in colder climates they would be stressed during winter (the cold and being possibly stuck in a coop) which one would think could trigger Mareks, perhaps it is related to the heat.

Quote:

 

[seminolewind]

LOL, Kim, I think their initial report was better-either Marek's or LL. I was having the exact same thoughts, although I'm not as funny as you are.

I wonder if these people have noticed that the new generation of chicken owners do seem to have a better education?

Sonya, I think what some of us have discussed on occasion is that there are certain ages when Marek's seems to pop up. 6-8 weeks, 4 months, 8 months -I think Casportpony or Nambroth have the correct intervals. Many of mine have been 8 months.

Maybe the virus itself is more proliferative at certain temperatures, not too hot not too cold.
The last 2 have really made me wonder, both roos hatched by a silkie and unvaccinated. Lived 8 months before they showed paralysis-a month apart. Maybe the mother passed immunity slowed the virus down.

I guess we are all coming to realize why scientists haven't learned all that much about Marek's in the past 100 years.

 

[mightymax]

I think we might be traveling to the same destination, but we're taking separate vehicles...lol !!!


Quote: It could be related to the heat. Just as it could be related to the cold. If we surmise that the virus is rather reclusive in the winter months, wouldn't it serve to say that it is more abundant in the summer ones? it 'tomatos' or 'tomatoes' ??? I don't think that one necessarily cancels out the other. I just think that more people need to be thinking about it in the first place. I mean, truth be told, it could be related not to the heat and not to the cold, but rather to something entirely foreign to us at this moment or better yet...it could be related to both the heat and the cold...lol !!!

-kim-

P.S. I mean no harm and take no offense. I merely enjoy how discussing this disease gets my cerebral juices flowing !!! (And in case you're wondering, the answer's "yes", I do lead a rather dull life...lol !!!)

 

[seminolewind]

That's what I meant. Too hot or too cold slowing proliferation. I'm really not seeing any difference with their molting.

This disease is just too hard to be consistent enough to notice much of a pattern. I've been recently trying to eliminate illnesses of immunosuppression, which I may have seen as Marek's wasting.

One top of that I learn within the last two days more about LL. Interestingly, they have found that it is spread easily with eggs from pullets and virtually not at all with hens past their first or second molt. The chances of infecting other chickens goes down to zero as they age.
So LL free hatchery stock would be hens past their first or second molting.

I'm waiting right now for silkie eggs. I have the bator in my closet where all my clean clothes are. The brooder will be in the garage because it's the least likely area to have dander. I think that I'm getting silkies because of all that had happened to my last and only hatch of silkies over the last 7 years and I am now down to a 7 year old roo who is living with 3 Polish girls. Silkie 1 got paralysis up to his neck, grey eye, and lost his depth perception. Silkies 2,3,4,and 5 were given to someone and they got killed by a raccoon. My Marek's carrier pullet died at a year old. 2 had gotten paralysis and were euthanized. My oldest hen died in my arms, may have been from something other than Marek's. Her daughter went catatonic at her mom's death and didn't recover. The Marek's carrier offspring pullet's daughter died last year from worm damage , e. coli, cocci, all in her small intestine. I have one roo left. So thing is back in 2007 I never wanted silkies, and thru the last 7 years, I think I cried the hardest when they died. I had started out with 2 roos and a hen and from all the offspring, neither ever produced another male. Lucky me, I got a share of tax return refund and can build them a palace, LOL. It was the one silkie pullet I bought, and had had a closed flock all this time prior to her.

Just had to share the story. Thanks for listening!

Kim I think we're in the same car, LOL. However I don't have winter here. But spring and fall do have some nice moderate weather.

 

[mightymax]

...the pullet's offspring's daughter ??? Was her daddy a coal miner? Or was that numbers 2 and 7's kid from the third cousin's second marriage...I forget...???

How do you do it, seminolewind? Not only must your brain be related to the sponge, but that sponge must have soaked up a roladex and a copy of the family tree's guide to inheriting inlaws, in order to remember all that !!! I can't even recall what I had for dinner last night, much less all that big-top apparatus...lol !!! Good gosh...now what thread am I on again? I thought somebody said something about a 'circus' ???

-kim- (I think...)

 

[seminolewind]

...the pullet's offspring's daughter ??? Was her daddy a coal miner? Or was that numbers 2 and 7's kid from the third cousin's second marriage...I forget...???

How do you do it, seminolewind? Not only must your brain be related to the sponge, but that sponge must have soaked up a roladex and a copy of the family tree's guide to inheriting inlaws, in order to remember all that !!! I can't even recall what I had for dinner last night, much less all that big-top apparatus...lol !!! Good gosh...now what thread am I on again? I thought somebody said something about a 'circus' ???

-kim- (I think...)

I admit it. Someone may have been fathered by the coal miner, LOL. That I cannot remember

 

[Sonya9]

I guess we are all coming to realize why scientists haven't learned all that much about Marek's in the past 100 years.

Most of the cases here have been related to some kind of stress. Since chickens often keep stress hidden, OR people just don't notice the signs then that could evade many "scientists". Though some articles written by vets say that it usually hits in adolescents and often related to social/integration issues. Course the last pullet that died had MG (breeder said her flock tested positive, and pullet had ongoing respiratory issues and even a foamy eye).

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:
I think chickens have a stressful life; too hot, too cold, predator fear, randy rooster, dinner late, treats late, laying an egg while some other chicken is pecking at your head.....
I'm not sure that adolescents and social integration issues outweigh viral proliferation becoming noticeable symptoms. I would think that it taking 6-12 weeks for the virus to grow to the point of symptoms comes earlier than social integration.

In regard to scientists what I meant was that for example the common cold has not been cured or prevented. I think that most viral proliferation happens when anything affects an immune system. Unfortunately, Marek's virus itself suppresses the immune system .
But it does include stress and stress can be a very important "ingredient".

 

[Nambroth]

Anecdotally, all of my Marek's (confirmed) symptoms and deaths have been in late winter. The time of year and/or temperature is a good theory, but it would be hard to figure out one way or another just by talking with backyard chicken enthusiasts.

I just told this to someone via PM, but I will share it here:
I have started to come to hate Marek's more for the immunosupression more than anything. As heart-breaking as the visceral form is with paralysis and/or rapid cancerous tumor growth, the long-term chiseling away at a chicken's health (for those susceptible to it) and the owner always second-guessing and trying to figure out "what is it this time" and "how do I treat this" ...frankly really sucks. Those that keep chickens as livestock are often right to cull in these situations, but I'm a loony that loves my birds as pets so it's doubly hard.

I am a layperson and do not understand or know the nitty gritty and details of RNA/DNA retroviruses. That said, have we (modern science/humanity) ever created a cure even for human DNA vrisues? I am asking genuinely. I don't know. Remember that these viruses inject themselves into the very DNA of their host's cells and are manufactured by the host's cells. Truthfully, the Marek's vaccine is better protection for chickens than most anything we have for humans against DNA-type herpesviruses. I'm amazed we know as much and can do as much as we can.

Have any of you with Marek's positive flocks gone through your own mental evolution as we (as a chicken community) have learned about this disease? I know I have. I went from terror and feeling hopeless, to feeling somewhat educated and feeling like I had a handle on it all, to going back to feeling hopeless as I learned that nothing I researched was absolute, to questioning myself, to feeling better informed yet again, etc etc. It is a rollercoaster.

 

[lalaland]

Anecdotally, all of my Marek's (confirmed) symptoms and deaths have been in late winter. The time of year and/or temperature is a good theory, but it would be hard to figure out one way or another just by talking with backyard chicken enthusiasts.

I just told this to someone via PM, but I will share it here:
I have started to come to hate Marek's more for the immunosupression more than anything. As heart-breaking as the visceral form is with paralysis and/or rapid cancerous tumor growth, the long-term chiseling away at a chicken's health (for those susceptible to it) and the owner always second-guessing and trying to figure out "what is it this time" and "how do I treat this" ...frankly really sucks. Those that keep chickens as livestock are often right to cull in these situations, but I'm a loony that loves my birds as pets so it's doubly hard.

I am a layperson and do not understand or know the nitty gritty and details of RNA/DNA retroviruses. That said, have we (modern science/humanity) ever created a cure even for human DNA vrisues? I am asking genuinely. I don't know. Remember that these viruses inject themselves into the very DNA of their host's cells and are manufactured by the host's cells. Truthfully, the Marek's vaccine is better protection for chickens than most anything we have for humans against DNA-type herpesviruses. I'm amazed we know as much and can do as much as we can.

Have any of you with Marek's positive flocks gone through your own mental evolution as we (as a chicken community) have learned about this disease? I know I have. I went from terror and feeling hopeless, to feeling somewhat educated and feeling like I had a handle on it all, to going back to feeling hopeless as I learned that nothing I researched was absolute, to questioning myself, to feeling better informed yet again, etc etc. It is a rollercoaster.

wow, you have just articulated what I've been thinking and feeling ! the second guessing and hyper-awareness of the flock's health, the roller coaster of I've got it, I don't get it, I know what to do, I have no idea what to do, flailing at every possibility....

and trying to balance the individual hen's health and the flock's health drives me crazy. Do I sacrifice this hen for the good of the flock? Do I decide they have all been repeatedly exposed so this is no reason to not fight like hell for this one's life?

I've only been aware of mareks in my flock since October, but have gone through those stages and am still riding the rollercoaster. Am guessing I'll be on it for some time, too. And I hate roller coasters!