Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[Haunted55]

I'm now worried about Mareks. I have a bantam cochin who is 5 months old that has leg issues, she topples off to the side because she isn't using her left leg. Took her to the vet today and he isn't sure. He said to try steroids and clavamox. If this doesn't help in a week she will probably need to be put down. If this happens, he said necropsy is in order to see what it was.

I'm very worried. He couldn't find anything wrong and said it seems neurological. DIdn't act like he thought it was mareks but didn't rule it out 100%.

I got all of my 8 chickens from breeders on here. None were vaccinated. My thoughts are, if the people I got my birds from (only 3 people) have not had mareks, could my girl have it? I don't have chickens anywhere around where I live that I know of.

If it isn't mareks, can I vaccinate my older birds? They are all around the same age 5 months, give or take a little. if it is mareks, I guess they are all exposed and carriers now. Can a bird carry it and not get it?

I'm very upset as these are my first chickens, my first year with them. I hope that Penny just hurt herself somehow and this will get better but I fear the worst case scenario.

Is there a test they can do for it? he checked for coccidia, but that was clear.

If it were to be from mold (doubt it, but never know), could she improve? if her leg is getting paralysis, can that reverse?

Acutally, I did have a vitamin b pill I put in the water. I don't think you can overdoseoo. She's on B can you? I used to take it a lot.

So, I'm wondering how rare mareks is. I'm beginning to think that probably is not what she has. I have 8 chickens, all the rest act fine.

I'm going to keep her out as much as I can (I mean on the couch beside me) so I can observe better, plus I'm sure it's nicer for her too. She's sitting pretty comfy now,

I guess I shouln't rush to put her down because I don't think she's in pain. If it can take 5 days, then I will not assume she won't make it.

I really appreciate all of the response. I'm going to try and get her to eat/drink now. I feel like I'm pestering her but she has to eat.

How is your chicken today Klenkskluckers? any decision on what to do for her?

My girl is about the same as last night, she's sitting up well, drinking a lot, not eating much today but I'm sure she will. Still having the left leg trouble though. she kind of gave up trying to walk much I think. Of course, she's on the couch with me so maybe not inclined to walk on the couch.

She pooped a bit ago, shes only going 1x or so a day, didn't go yesterday. It was still runny, but it didn't get all stuck to her vent. It looked a little better than previous poos.

She had her 3rd steroid dose this morning and I'm supposed to wait til Tues for the next dose.

I don't think it's Mareks, does anyone agree/disagree? She is sitting with her wings out quite a bit but I think it's helping her to balance. I'm going to get a pic of her and post just so you can see her.

Okay, please forgive me all, I wanted everything in front of me to answer this. I still think this is a vitamin problem, how severe? No clue. The fact she isn't getting worse gives me hope. Now not to muddy the waters too much, Marek's can also present this way. Marek's isn't some rare, exotic disease. A lot of States do not even have it listed as a reportable disese any longer, as it is so prevalent. Trouble is a lot of folks have no clue what they are seeing and assume it was fighting, falling off roost, etc. that caused the leg, wing, eye, neck, etc., injury. See where I'm going? In your case...I don't know...it could be but with the symptoms described, she may very well pull out of it, if it is. I am still leaning towards the vitamins. The rest of the flock...sometimes the rest, in the case of Marek's, do not always show symptoms at the same time. I depends on the strain, mutations, overall health of the birds, so many variables. It also depends on the areas of the body it hits the hardest. If you have not already...go back to the beginning and read this thread. A lot of interesting observations in it from a bunch of us who see this daily. It's weird too...Seminolewind sees these symptoms...Casportpony sees some of them as well, but they mean different things. Nambroth sees a mixture of both and I see some of all with some interesting twists. To get the best idea of Marek's you need to see it all, from every angle. Knowing the enemy is half the battle, even if this doesn't turn out to be Marek's in the end.

 

[schnebbles]

I hope she pulls thru, I have hope too. Thank you

any ideas on how to give her water in the dog/cat carrier (plastic kind)? she spills it or ends up laying in it. I have to work tomorrow so she will maybe be in the cage, but I might just put her in the bathroom where she is safe but not caged.

She didn't eat much today, 1 mealworm and a little mush food was all. Yesterday she ate so many mealworms.

oh, and I'll have to go thru and read more of this thread. I didn't take time to read nearly 70 pages before I posted. I'm sure it's helpful. gosh, I hope it's not that, I feel like it would have had to come airborne, I do not think they had contact with it before I got any of them. 2 of my breeders are npip, and this one was from one of them. Something is just making me think no on that.

 

[salt and pepper]

Schnebbels, I have yet to see a Marek's bird look sick until the very end when starvation kills them. I know that some paralysis and looking sick can be botulism, but how long would they live with botulism? Eastern Equine Encephalitis is a possibility if you have mosquitos that carry it in your area. Counties or states usually have a site that maps out where there's positives for certain diseases.

Really? The bird I lost last year
acted sick for over a week before she died.

 

[Haunted55]

Not sure how you can rig the water so it won't spill, I've yet to find a fool proof way. Keep on with the vitamins. Now, have you tried her on anything other than the Clavamox? What are we talking for steroids and how many days are you into the treatment the Vet gave you? Both antibiotic and steroid. Did they tell you why they were using the Clavamox? Did your bird have some kind of an external wound or swelling?

Another thing to think about, NPIP means nothing when it comes to Marek's. This program is looking for the poultry disease that can be more readily controlled and finite in their actions and transfer. Not Marek's. As Seminolewind said...think ghost. Marek's really doesn't seem to have many or any rules. It can move on a breeze, you can carry it on yourself, your car....so many ways it can get to your birds. If their birds were not vaccinated for this disease, and all of the biosecurity measures possible followed, their birds can and do still get it. Even if vaccinated, if they are exposed to a virulent form of this disease, the vaccination only protects them from forming the tumors that can cause the paralysis seen in these birds.
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/animal_dis_spec/poultry/

Still, we're not really talking about Marek's with yours yet, but I do need to understand the Vet's choice of drugs for your bird. The steroid especially concerns me. They can cause their own problems that can mimic Marek's.

 

[schnebbles]

I do think the steroid helped though because of how bad off she was Saturday morning to the point of me almost taking her to be put down. SHe's preening, and apparently that's a good sign. She's really preening right now.

He gave the clavamox (might discontinue) just in case there was something (think he said viral) that she might have. She took 1/4 of a 5mg tablet for 3 days, she doesn't get any today and then every other day. She's supposed to go back Friday so that would be just what I read is right for a bird.

She is very alert this morning, heard the roo crowing and she managed to jump off the couch which I wasn't expecting. darn it all! That's the last thing I wanted her doing. She's going in the bathroom today where it's flat and safe and there is a window.

I sure hope it's not mareks, I keep saying that, but last night i was at the fair and I was in the bird barn. I would hate to spread that to people's birds and it didn't even cross my mind til I was 1/2 way through. I wouldn't take my birds to shows because of that possibility I don't think. But I'm not into showing at all, I just want lovely pets and that's all.

Will continue the extra b - also when I make her mash I use vitamin water.

I can't remember his exact reason for the steroids.

She has had 3 doses of steroid (none today) and .75ml of the clavamox 1x friday, 2x saturday and sunday both. supposed to have 2 doses a day.

 

[Nambroth]

I hope she pulls thru, I have hope too. Thank you

any ideas on how to give her water in the dog/cat carrier (plastic kind)? she spills it or ends up laying in it. I have to work tomorrow so she will maybe be in the cage, but I might just put her in the bathroom where she is safe but not caged.

There is an easy way to secure water and food dishes in any carrier that has a wire or even plastic grid on it. Most carriers have the wire front that closes-- welded metal grid, actually. Does yours? If so, if you have one available, pop over to a pet shop and grab a parrot crock. They sometimes carry them for dogs and cats, too. Check the parrot section as well as small animals (rabbits etc) and the dog and cat bowl area. I think I have even seen these at TSC in the small animals area where they sell rabbit and guinea pig stuff. They are designed to mount onto the side of metal cages or crates. This works beautifully for me-- just mount it down quite low so that a sick bird can get into it with a minimum of effort. The last thing you want is a hurdle to eating or drinking, when it comes to an ill bird.

You can get them in stainless steel (perfect for sanitizing in the dishwasher) http://www.birdsafestore.com/product_p/coop30.htm These things last forever as you might imagine. Worth it to have one or two on hand! The holder ring tends to be galvanized on some brands so some care should be taken to avoid rust if you use them often.

or acrylic... http://www.birdsafestore.com/Smart_Crock_20oz_p/smartcrock3.htm

I really adore this style, because I don't need to unscrew it each time I want to take it out to clean or refill. I have 5 parrots too so ease of cleaning is always an issue at my household. http://www.birdsafestore.com/In_and_Out_Crock_p/smartio.htm

 

[schnebbles]

I should have thought of that! My mom has parrots. I will only be putting her in the cage overnight for now and I think I can safely let her go with no water to sleep..

She is starting to walk!!!

I'm so happy. She's going very slow but trying and putting weight on the leg. She is eating and pooped twice today, I know it's not a lot but pretty good considering. I hope she continues to improve now. She is acting so much better, I will put her on the couch this evening with me and I fear she won't want to sit still. I left her in the bathroom today and will as long as I think she needs it. I don't want to rush letting her outside.

i guess I'll continue the clavamox and do the next 2 steroid treatments. Then hopefully Friday she's well enough I don't have to take her an hour to the vet.

 

[Haunted55]

I should have thought of that! My mom has parrots. I will only be putting her in the cage overnight for now and I think I can safely let her go with no water to sleep..

She is starting to walk!!!

I'm so happy. She's going very slow but trying and putting weight on the leg. She is eating and pooped twice today, I know it's not a lot but pretty good considering. I hope she continues to improve now. She is acting so much better, I will put her on the couch this evening with me and I fear she won't want to sit still. I left her in the bathroom today and will as long as I think she needs it. I don't want to rush letting her outside.

i guess I'll continue the clavamox and do the next 2 steroid treatments. Then hopefully Friday she's well enough I don't have to take her an hour to the vet.

If this is a follow up visit, there shouldn't be a charge...or have they changed that too? I'd continue and try to take her Friday just so you can ask questions if nothing else. You need to know just what happened here in case it ever shows up agaain with this one or another. I am glad to hear she is making progress. That's fantastic! Whatever you do...do not stop the Bs. Not now. 3-4 days afte full improvement and then just go to the regular poultry vitamins for maybe another week. Sounds like a long time, I know, but this combo seems to be working.

 

[schnebbles]

I picked up more b-12 today. No problem continuing with those. Is it bad to always give chickens the poultry vitamins?

Well, idiot me, decided I'd take her out while we sat on the deck and ate. Bad idea. The other bantam cochin was so mean attacking her. She was flat on her face, poor baby. I sat her on my lap then, and she got away, flew down, then somehow made it down 4 steps. Only to be attacked immediately by the other one. I couldn't move fast enough, Penelope was right on her, fast!

So, we sat out in the grass for a little bit, her and me so they wouldn't get her.

Which bring me to next question, how to avoid this? I've read put new one in at night and they might be ok. I will not make that mistake again. She is eating quite a lot today.

I am so mad at myself for taking her out to get attacked. It didn't occur to me that might happen, she's only been in since last wednesday evening.

She's standing up a lot too, even on the couch. I wonder if she hadn't just injured her leg.

 

[Haunted55]

You can always make a small pen inside with them for a weeks or so. That's what I normally do. that way they can see and smell and get used to her again. she will have to go through the pecking order thing again. Just the way it is, so make sure she can hold her own before you put her back.

Of course she could have but, that's another reason I said to get some answers on Friday. I know...an hour away is a real pain, but look at it this way....What if this were to come back? What would you do? Right now, you don't even know what is going on with her. My opinion only, but I would make the trip back for recheck and see if there are any answers there for you. Was any blood work done or any other testings? If so, should have some results from those that may give a clue.