Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[Haunted55]

Well it looks like I'll be getting my eggs today, the gentleman finally got back with me. So I will need to get the vaccine and administer myself. I checked Jeffers, I'll probably just get it there. Now is that the 3 vaccines in one or is it just one? OI read the compendium on the vaccine, it just really didn't say, so I;m guessing its just the single. But the name of it is Serotype 3, Live Virus, so maybe it is 3. Now do I get (2) 1000 doses, so I can double immunize? or just one and a single vaccination? I'm guessing I have 1000 doses, just give it 2x? And how many days apart or both in the same day? I probably wont be getting the coccidiosis vaccine, its $50. Hubby would kill me, my little chicken adventure sure is starting to get pricey lol. Who knows though, maybe he will just smile and shake his head and walk away.

The vaccine we can buy is only turkey Marek's vaccine. Just the one kind. All you'll want to do is the one time with it. We as non-hatchery folks can't get set up for the other two types as these take specialized equipment to give and keep it viable. It's just how it is I'm afraid....I've gone round and round with the drug company about it and the answer is still no. They won't even sell it to us. The way they do the 2Xs vaccination, at the hatcheries, is to do it once in the egg, at so many days, [not looking at the info right now] and then again after hatch. I have really given this some serious thinking and to be honest the only thing I could come up with is the 1st dosing and then again later at the 4 week mark. I have no clue if it would work or not. I would say yes if you had chicks that were resistant to the first because of maternal resistance initially passed on, but how would you know? If you can afford the two separate bottles of vaccine, then go for it. Why not? It isn't going to hurt them and it may just help. So much of this is into the weird and unknown. I have turkeys here for that purpose. The thought here is that my chickens are constantly being exposed to turkey Marek's and therefore being vaccinated over and over again. I seems to work very well. Somewhere on this thread...I think...I wrote about how my birds were separated from the turkeys over the Winter and how the Marek's showed it's ugly face again. Now, since they are out again, I'm not seeing it.

After your eggs hatch and they are ready to go into the brooder, you will want to move them all at once....get your vaccine together and ready to go, do a chick and put into the brooder. Then the next and so on. Unfortunately, this vaccine is one time use, unless you can find the wafer kind and then you may be able to divide it up into two dosings. Have to ask Seminolewind about that one. Practise really, really good biosecurity for the first 6 weeks. Seriously...this is very important, it is during this time frame that the vaccine is working and building up the resitance in the bird's body. Seminole described it as a race as to which virus was going to win. Turkey's or chicken's Marek's, the more careful you can be, the better chance of the turkey Marek's coming out on top.

Hogster 160, whatever you do from now on, please think seriously about breeding for your own resistance. It's working here. My Control Group 2 is about ready to lay and I will be hatching from them as soon as is possible. These birds, just like the first group, are healthy, great personalities, and Group 1 is very egg prolific. Kinda like what I thought keeping chickens was supposed to be like, lol. The biggest plus...they don't die. Now read that in a realistic way. They will, but it doesn't seem it will be from Marek's. I know I am still early into this...it will take me a while to get to the 8th group, but every generation is stronger, healthier and huge. I didn't mention that...these birds are large, as in much bigger than I ever thought they would be. Maybe the original survivors were just smaller because of the Marek's and I know some were for fact, but these home hatches are big.

Something else I have done here, the Dark Cornish....I had survivors from them, a lot of them as in I only lost one from my original order and that was to cocci. These birds seem to have a natural immunity? I'm not sure if this is the right word or if resistance would be better. They just walked right through it all and are still with me. When and if you decide to breed your own and want to hatch a few of these out, let me know. By then I should have everyone separated out into the breeding pens so you would get the DC and not a mix. Although...the DC and Jersy Giants are a great mix...lol.

 

[pysankigirl]

The state poultry guy here said that there are two levels of Mareks: the regular kind and the OMG kind.

The regular kind is already everywhere. Wild birds and the wind transfer it all over. You really cant get away from it. So breeding for resistance is what people do. You will take some losses in the beginning. In my area I have heard talking to people that you shouldn't bother vaccinating for it so you know which birds are the resistant ones and only breed from those birds who prove resistant. the local breeders sell from their flocks that have it, infecting the flocks of those they sell to. But if it is truely everywhere, then I suppose I cant really fault them for it, although my initial reaction wasn't good to that news. (I have been wrestling with that one...but it is one of the reasons I will never be a poultry seller: too many ethical quandries I just don't want to have to deal with.)

When you have the OMG kind of Mareks, then you really have to be very careful with how you quarantine your property...not just your birds, but your property is infected with it. So even if you get rid of your birds, you still need to be careful if you want to keep other peoples birds safe. And you do, you really do...it is quite virulent and it would be a real problem if it were everywhere like the less virulent kind.

I found that the only 3 birds I had come down with it (suspected) were the ones from a particular breeder and a particular breed. So I think they must be highly suseptible. all my other (50+) birds are fine.

if you just want to have a few birds for eggs and name them and get attached, then I think ordering from a hatchery that vaccinates is a great option. I did vaccinate all my birds in a panic after my first case, but honestly, it was a knee-jerk reaction and I am not sure it was the best one.

 

[hogster160]

The vaccine we can buy is only turkey Marek's vaccine. Just the one kind. All you'll want to do is the one time with it. We as non-hatchery folks can't get set up for the other two types as these take specialized equipment to give and keep it viable. It's just how it is I'm afraid....I've gone round and round with the drug company about it and the answer is still no. They won't even sell it to us. The way they do the 2Xs vaccination, at the hatcheries, is to do it once in the egg, at so many days, [not looking at the info right now] and then again after hatch. I have really given this some serious thinking and to be honest the only thing I could come up with is the 1st dosing and then again later at the 4 week mark. I have no clue if it would work or not. I would say yes if you had chicks that were resistant to the first because of maternal resistance initially passed on, but how would you know? If you can afford the two separate bottles of vaccine, then go for it. Why not? It isn't going to hurt them and it may just help. So much of this is into the weird and unknown. I have turkeys here for that purpose. The thought here is that my chickens are constantly being exposed to turkey Marek's and therefore being vaccinated over and over again. I seems to work very well. Somewhere on this thread...I think...I wrote about how my birds were separated from the turkeys over the Winter and how the Marek's showed it's ugly face again. Now, since they are out again, I'm not seeing it.

After your eggs hatch and they are ready to go into the brooder, you will want to move them all at once....get your vaccine together and ready to go, do a chick and put into the brooder. Then the next and so on. Unfortunately, this vaccine is one time use, unless you can find the wafer kind and then you may be able to divide it up into two dosings. Have to ask Seminolewind about that one. Practise really, really good biosecurity for the first 6 weeks. Seriously...this is very important, it is during this time frame that the vaccine is working and building up the resitance in the bird's body. Seminole described it as a race as to which virus was going to win. Turkey's or chicken's Marek's, the more careful you can be, the better chance of the turkey Marek's coming out on top.

Hogster 160, whatever you do from now on, please think seriously about breeding for your own resistance. It's working here. My Control Group 2 is about ready to lay and I will be hatching from them as soon as is possible. These birds, just like the first group, are healthy, great personalities, and Group 1 is very egg prolific. Kinda like what I thought keeping chickens was supposed to be like, lol. The biggest plus...they don't die. Now read that in a realistic way. They will, but it doesn't seem it will be from Marek's. I know I am still early into this...it will take me a while to get to the 8th group, but every generation is stronger, healthier and huge. I didn't mention that...these birds are large, as in much bigger than I ever thought they would be. Maybe the original survivors were just smaller because of the Marek's and I know some were for fact, but these home hatches are big.

Something else I have done here, the Dark Cornish....I had survivors from them, a lot of them as in I only lost one from my original order and that was to cocci. These birds seem to have a natural immunity? I'm not sure if this is the right word or if resistance would be better. They just walked right through it all and are still with me. When and if you decide to breed your own and want to hatch a few of these out, let me know. By then I should have everyone separated out into the breeding pens so you would get the DC and not a mix. Although...the DC and Jersy Giants are a great mix...lol.

I have turkeys here too, so should I still worry about getting the vaccine? And yes, I will be breeding for resistance. Just makes the most sense to me if I want to have chickens for the long haul. And I do. I believe that my neighbor breed for resistance too. Which is why none of hers seem to be dying of md. She did comment that she just hatches some out when she feels she needs more. I don't believe that most of the people here know what md is. Ive spoken with my neighbor and the lady where i get my feed, they had no clue. So I will just breed for resistance and call it good.

 

[hogster160]

The state poultry guy here said that there are two levels of Mareks: the regular kind and the OMG kind.

The regular kind is already everywhere. Wild birds and the wind transfer it all over. You really cant get away from it. So breeding for resistance is what people do. You will take some losses in the beginning. In my area I have heard talking to people that you shouldn't bother vaccinating for it so you know which birds are the resistant ones and only breed from those birds who prove resistant. the local breeders sell from their flocks that have it, infecting the flocks of those they sell to. But if it is truely everywhere, then I suppose I cant really fault them for it, although my initial reaction wasn't good to that news. (I have been wrestling with that one...but it is one of the reasons I will never be a poultry seller: too many ethical quandries I just don't want to have to deal with.)

When you have the OMG kind of Mareks, then you really have to be very careful with how you quarantine your property...not just your birds, but your property is infected with it. So even if you get rid of your birds, you still need to be careful if you want to keep other peoples birds safe. And you do, you really do...it is quite virulent and it would be a real problem if it were everywhere like the less virulent kind.

I found that the only 3 birds I had come down with it (suspected) were the ones from a particular breeder and a particular breed. So I think they must be highly suseptible. all my other (50+) birds are fine.

if you just want to have a few birds for eggs and name them and get attached, then I think ordering from a hatchery that vaccinates is a great option. I did vaccinate all my birds in a panic after my first case, but honestly, it was a knee-jerk reaction and I am not sure it was the best one.

I wanted to vaccinate all my birds at first too. In fact I actually thought about culling them all and not doing chickens at all anymore. But I really am enjoying them and the turkeys so much. Its what I want to do. But I will not be selling my chicks. I just can't in all honesty do something like that. I'd rather just be careful, keep all my birds, cull those that get it, breed those that don't and keep my own strain. And of course, be very careful not to bring something else home with me. I am sure my neighbor breed for resistance too, and just doesn't realize what she has.

Anyway, I'm off to get my eggs. Hopefully we have a somewhat successful hatch, I end up with a rooster or two (just not all roosters!) so I can continue to breed for resistance.

Deb

 

[hogster160]

OK another question for you smart, wonderfully helpful, and friendly people. I just got my eggs. I candled for cracks. One had a crack hairline, so I broke it open, there was a bullseye in the white spot. So they are fertile. Now before I put them in with my chicken, do I need to clean them in any way? My bio security brain, is saying yes. But I don't think I want to wash the bloom off. I'm gonna wait to put them under Ms. Broody for a bit yet. Eggs are sitting on my counter atm. Pointy side down. Please correct me if I'm wrong lol Thanks!

 

[pysankigirl]

you can spray them down with oxine

 

[schnebbles]

Hogster, I'm sorry about your loss.

Penny is about the same, Is b-12 good enough? was going to get b-complex but it had other stuff I wasn't sure about.

I put her in the cage last night for bed and she kept flopping around like she couldn't balance in there so I ended up letting her sleep on the couch. I put pillows so she wouldn't fall off, she's pretty comfy on the couch.

She spilled her water today (in bathroom) so she probably lost balance, although the cup wasn't tipped. She had a steroid yesterday morning. Right now she's back with me on the couch trying to sleep standing up. So, she's standing, but just can't really walk much. I took this pic but it's hard to see - she was sitting and the left leg stick out a little. Last night in the cage, both legs seemed to want to come forward, but that's not typical.

I think he gave me steroids because he didn't really think she looked like a mareks bird. Like I said, he did stuff to cover a couple bases.

Whoever (Hogster?) said that they were told mareks usually presents before 16 weeks, my bird is 5 months as of last Friday, but I know 16 weeks certainly isn't set in stone.

 

[hogster160]

Hogster, I'm sorry about your loss.

Penny is about the same, Is b-12 good enough? was going to get b-complex but it had other stuff I wasn't sure about.

I put her in the cage last night for bed and she kept flopping around like she couldn't balance in there so I ended up letting her sleep on the couch. I put pillows so she wouldn't fall off, she's pretty comfy on the couch.

She spilled her water today (in bathroom) so she probably lost balance, although the cup wasn't tipped. She had a steroid yesterday morning. Right now she's back with me on the couch trying to sleep standing up. So, she's standing, but just can't really walk much. I took this pic but it's hard to see - she was sitting and the left leg stick out a little. Last night in the cage, both legs seemed to want to come forward, but that's not typical.

I think he gave me steroids because he didn't really think she looked like a mareks bird. Like I said, he did stuff to cover a couple bases.

Whoever (Hogster?) said that they were told mareks usually presents before 16 weeks, my bird is 5 months as of last Friday, but I know 16 weeks certainly isn't set in stone.

Thank you, yes that's what I was told, 16 weeks. But I'm still waiting for results to see if my dead bird had anything (dumb dogs, well more like dumb me! my dogs were just being dogs). She was walking fine, just the eye thing going on.

I didn't really have much luck with the b12, so I got the super b complex spring valley brand from walmart (it was suggested to me on this thread). I think it was like $3. It took, if memory serves me right, about 10 day/2 weeks, I can go back and check my dates to know for sure. In fact she is still getting it, daily in the waterer. I also make sure she has a full crop several times a day as she wasn't eating much either and lost a lot of weight. But she is eating well and laying for me now too. Crazy stuff. I just don't get it.

She went paralyzed 6/26 and on 7/3 we put her out with the rest of the girls in a brooder box. She was with the girls and had access to the grass. She wouldn't do a whole lot of walking, a couple of steps at a time. I posted a video of her. And by 7/22 she was laying eggs and walking and out of her box. She was just hanging with the girls. So in total almost a full month of taking the super b complex. She was 24 weeks when these symptoms started. I brought her in the house and set up my dog crate with her bedding thick enough that she could rest comfortably, like 3-4" deep. She did well on that, not much slipping, mainly because she wasn't trying lol.

I would keep giving it to your girl. It takes a while for things to start working properly again it seems. And it makes for a very long month. I still go into the coop expecting to see a chicken down. Then I want to think, no the super b is working so it must be just a b deficiency. But that's really just wishful thinking on my part. I act as tho my chickens have md for the simple fact that if they don't, I sure don't want to bring it home and add it to the mix of what is going on. I also don't want anyone else to have to go through this because of me. Because if my girls have it, I have it.

Good luck and please keep us posted. My life just got really busy, and I haven't had time to post much, but I read a couple times a week. Wishing you well.

Deb

 

[schnebbles]

so, say I went to the fair again or the national show in November, and I clean up good and use disinfectant wipes on my hands, would I be contagious to the birds?

I will get the super b. Right now I have 500mg of b12, and I dissolve one in her tiny bowl of water, however it wants to float to the bottom, I stir it up with my finger before I offer her a drink when I'm home and have her on the couch.

I don't have a good pen for her and that dog carrier is just not big enough and way too dark. if I put litter in high, it gets in the water/

I don't expect her to get better overnight. My husband was all saying she has no quality of life, blah blah blah. Well, I'm the mom, lol! He didn't want me taking her to the vet, but I did.

Penny eats, I need to get her mealworms tho, I have my own colony and I need to go grab some.

I hope your lost bird doesn't show Mareks. Ya, I'd feel horrible if my dog got one of my babies. My cats seem ok with them too. Cat's don't usually go outside tho. My foster dog is an old beagle and he doesn't and never did even look twice at them.

Penny was standing a lot tonight, maybe it felt good to stretch her legs but she kept almost falling asleep.

 

[hogster160]

so, say I went to the fair again or the national show in November, and I clean up good and use disinfectant wipes on my hands, would I be contagious to the birds?

I will get the super b. Right now I have 500mg of b12, and I dissolve one in her tiny bowl of water, however it wants to float to the bottom, I stir it up with my finger before I offer her a drink when I'm home and have her on the couch.

I don't have a good pen for her and that dog carrier is just not big enough and way too dark. if I put litter in high, it gets in the water/

I don't expect her to get better overnight. My husband was all saying she has no quality of life, blah blah blah. Well, I'm the mom, lol! He didn't want me taking her to the vet, but I did.

Penny eats, I need to get her mealworms tho, I have my own colony and I need to go grab some.

I hope your lost bird doesn't show Mareks. Ya, I'd feel horrible if my dog got one of my babies. My cats seem ok with them too. Cat's don't usually go outside tho. My foster dog is an old beagle and he doesn't and never did even look twice at them.

Penny was standing a lot tonight, maybe it felt good to stretch her legs but she kept almost falling asleep.

I bought a pill crusher/splitter and crushed the pill so it dissolves. It turns the water a pretty yellow color. lol

I was told on this thread, if my chickens have md, that I have it and carry it where ever I go. The car needs to be swept out, fresh laundered clothes, and don't visit the chickens before you leave. To maybe wear footies over my chicken boots and take them off as I leave the chicken yard. My path from the chicken yard to my front door is the same every time, I try not to walk that path when I leave the house, sometimes its not always possible. So I spray my shoes before I get in the car. Then when I get to my destination, I spray them when I get out and again when I get back to my car. My hubby is pretty much right when he said he smells like a urinal lol. I spray all the time! Bio security, bio security, bio security!

I, however, am still to afraid to go to the fair. So I'm sorry but I really don't have any advice on that. It kills me to have to go to get feed lol. I do tend to have some slight OCD issues. And spreading this crap is one of them.

I am glad to hear that Penny is eating. It sucks to watch them lose weight and just be. We tried so many things, and finally getting her back outside with the girls is what did it. We built her a 4x4x2 pen out of wood and hardware cloth. That way she was with the rest of the gang but couldn't be hurt. Every chicken we have would peck her, so we fixed it so that she couldn't be hurt and still be with the gang. It made all the difference in the world.

I'm betting that the super b might just be what she needs to push her over that slump. Meaning keep her energy levels up. Its worth a shot.

As far as the waterer goes in the crate, I put both the feed bowl and waterer on a piece of flat wood, she still knocked it over, but I checked it several times a day to make sure it was full, and to offer her a drink by moving it to her. But I did keep it off to the side in the corner. Easy to do when you stay home all day tho. If I was working, yea it sure wouldn't have happened that way.

I don't have the money to take mine to the vet, in fact, I haven't found a vet that will even take blood from my chickens to send it off and be tested. So vets are out for us. If i find there really is no quality of life, they will be culled. Its my responsibility to take care of them. Its my job. That's one of the reasons why we didn't name our birds. They are our farm animals first, and pets second. I hate the idea of it, but its the best I can do for them.

When I saw what my dogs did to my BA, I ran around to the front of the house and out the back. I was afraid to touch her. I was afraid she was still alive. I touched her, and she didn't budge, so DH came over and got her. He bagged her up and stuck her in the fridge. You want to hear a funny? lol, I kept checking her through the night to make sure she had truly died and wasn't just in shock and very cold lol. Hubby thought I was nuts.

Well anyway, this is getting kind of long lol. Have a good night!

Deb