Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[hogster160]

I'm sorry for your loss. There is support here, I don't put up with nastiness here. There should not be any judging and people should be respectful . I get my vaccines from twincitiespoultrysupply.com They seem to have the cheapest and fastest shipping.

I see that the vet doesn't think it's Marek's at that age, but I've had 4-5 year old chickens die or be euthanized for it. Marek's does not follow any rules. The symptoms that most websites list are the typical common ones, not all the other symptoms that it could be. Depends on where in the body the virus hits first.

It's pricey to send them. But well worth the price.

Thank you for that address, I've saved it for future reference.

Yes it was pricey, but I agree, well worth the price.

For once, why can't md play by the rules? I am so hoping this works, but to be honest, I'm really just not sure that it will. All I have to say is she better be done with this broody business when this is done, or shes gonna get caged again, but this time for more than 3 days!

Deb

 

[Nambroth]

That's kinda of what I figured. Hes the Dr. He has to sound like he knows what hes talking about. It was very hard to understand him, so I'm hoping once I get the results back I get some kind of answer. But I really think even if it says neg for md, I'm going to believe its a false neg.

Deb

I apologize if you mentioned it before and I missed it, but what test are you having done? Gross necropsy? Will they be examining the nerves under a microscope for lesions (by the way, my bird had full paralysis and his sciatic nerve showed NO typical Marek's lesions)? DNA blood test?
I am just curious, because sometimes a gross necropsy won't reveal too much, especially if the bird didn't have a visceral form.

 

[hogster160]

I apologize if you mentioned it before and I missed it, but what test are you having done? Gross necropsy? Will they be examining the nerves under a microscope for lesions (by the way, my bird had full paralysis and his sciatic nerve showed NO typical Marek's lesions)? DNA blood test?
I am just curious, because sometimes a gross necropsy won't reveal too much, especially if the bird didn't have a visceral form.

He said he would do a gross necropsy and look for lesions, I don't recall anything about DNA blood test, but did mention blood testing. How long do these things take? I explained to him that she had the ocular shape change, as well as one other in the flock and one had the paralysis. He then rambles off a bunch of stuff he wanted to do. I have no clue how much this is gonna cost me, I am almost afraid!

Deb

 

[Nambroth]

Deb,

I got the necropsy results the day after I had my poor roo euthanized at the vet's office- at the time I didn't know I was dealing with Marek's, and had taken him in because he was obviously going downhill and struggling to breathe (found out later that he had tumors growing into his heart). I knew that we either had to help him or have him put down, I hate to see a critter suffer. He had surgery prior that same week and a tumor had been removed for biopsy. We actually got the call from the biopsy lab while I was at the vet's office and it was Lymphoma (Marek's viceral form) and we knew there was no saving him. The vet did the necropsy that evening after the clinic closed. If you have time and want to read my journey down this nasty road, there is a link in my signature about Trousers.

Necropsies should ideally be preformed as soon as they get the bird, so you should hear back within a business day I would think. Give them a day after they get the bird and call if you don't hear?
The nerve testing was done within a week at an independent lab.
The DNA blood test (which, according to my vet, is how most places find the Marek's markers now) took about a week and a half, for the results to come in.

 

[Haunted55]

Yes, my ocular girl is the one who went broody, I tired breaking her. She has stripped her chest feathers, won't leave the nest to eat, poop or forage. Its been two weeks. So I figured I'd give it a shot. Half measure sometimes isn't measured when you are new at something. I have no clue what I'm doing. Probably setting my self up for heart ache. But I'm guessing the only way to know for sure is to try it. So I am.

And this is what I do know. Yes they will be moved once they are hatched (hopefully I will be there to remove them as they hatch, no clue if that's possible tho lol but am planning on watching them). I am getting 2 sets of vaccine, because I am guessing they won't all be born within 2 hours of each other, or for the second set of vaccine. They will be separated for at least 18 weeks. I'd like to keep the separated longer if possible. And it should be. I have a couple of acres so that just means another bldg if they survive. Which I will wait to build once I know. The hen has a secluded box in the coop. She has an area about 4x3 that was used for the turkeys when I first got them. She doesn't get off the nest unless I take her. That's when she eats poops and baths. In about 10 minutes shes back on the nest. No other bird is allowed in her area. She really doesn't let them.

I'm not going to worry. I figure she went broody for a reason. So we are giving it a shot. I am hopeful things work out. I don't have an incubator, but maybe if this doesn't work, I'll need to invest in one.

Deb

Hogster...I just had an answer all ready to post and I lost it. Bear with me please, I'm trying to get it back in my head.

Okay, let's take a walk down Suppostition Lane....the common belief today is that all birds are exposed to Marek's of some form if they make it to the 1 yr. mark. For out little trip, we are going to go with the idea that the hens these eggs came from have hit that mark and have passed with flying colors. It is also known that the parents pass on reistance and immunities to their young, especially the mothers. These resistances will last any where from 7 days up to 3 weeks time. How long are they going to last in your chicks? No clue, not knowing the breeding stock, and history, I wouldn't want to even guess. So let's use the 7 day mark for this little trip. Your broody hatches the eggs, you do a snatch and grab and remove them to a brooder away from the rest of the birds. The hatching can take up to 3-5 days to be completed. once all of the birds are hatched vaccinate immediately and save the second dosing of the vaccine for a few weeks later. At 5 days you are still in the maternal applied immunity time frame. I think this can work. I've done nothing but think about this since I posted earlier....losts of time to think filling the pools for the ducks and geese, lol.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2643530/

Okay, this is a link I found earlier and haven't had the time to research it so I am throwing this out there so you can have at it. I pretty much replaces some of the links I had before that talked and offered proof of revaccination working even on older birds. You have half the battle already won by running turkeys there. I honestly think the revaccination, a few weeks after hatch, is going to give you more than the fighting chance you need to get adult birds from this hatch.

From one Deb to another, I believe this can and will work. You are breaking new ground here girl and sometimes being 'new' takes a lot of the stigmas away from facing the problems. That can be a good thing. Preconceived ideas from Vets, me or anyone are not always the right way to go. Your situation there is different from mine or anyone else's. I agree with your idea of the 'reason' for the broody. Call it crazy, but I have been led more than once to something that has helped my animals and Marek's birds. Go with your gut, it usually will not steer you wrong. I still give you a 60% chance of survival rate. I think you can out run Marek's this time, seriously. Please, please keep this updated. Win, lose or draw. This is important stuff you are going to be finding out and this could help all of us understand a lot better.

 

[seminolewind]

Deb Hogster, I was devastated when all those chicks got paralysis, one by one. And to think that I had hatched 5 of them in the incubater, then snuck them out and put them with her. It was a nightmare. My husband bought me a new ax. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

If you want the chicks, you should move them away, and wipe the eggs. If you want to use a broody, hatch your own eggs. If your flock has Marek's, and you hatch eggs from your flock, those chicks will most likely be resistant. I have 4 that were hatched here from March/April.
Of course 3 are boys!

 

[seminolewind]

I love my roos! My first victim was a silkie roo, 2 years old. One night he couldn't get into the coop and fell off the plank. I put him on my patio, and gave him food and water for weeks. The paralysis went up into the wings, and then he did some weird movements with his neck. He got one gray eye. I took him to the vet to be euthanized, and the vet offered a necropsy, which he did. He said it must have been EEE because he didn't see any tumors. Since that time I lost one every few months, wasting away. I had a good excuse for each one, a few were kept away from the food by the flock, a couple were never taught how to eat feed. Then I had a Jersey that I found with a broken leg. After a cast and 2 weeks of being in a sling, I got the first chick that had paralysis. I thought , okay , 2 have broken legs. But then there was a third. Then I knew what it was.

I'm sure we all have long stories, disbelief, and a lot of crying.

 

[Haunted55]

Deb Hogster, I was devastated when all those chicks got paralysis, one by one. And to think that I had hatched 5 of them in the incubater, then snuck them out and put them with her. It was a nightmare. My husband bought me a new ax. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

If you want the chicks, you should move them away, and wipe the eggs. If you want to use a broody, hatch your own eggs. If your flock has Marek's, and you hatch eggs from your flock, those chicks will most likely be resistant. I have 4 that were hatched here from March/April.
Of course 3 are boys!

Seminole, that's awful! I'm not sure what I would have done either.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote: If all 10 chicks got it, then the lady I got those eggs from had some real pristine never exposed layers.

 

[hogster160]

If all 10 chicks got it, then the lady I got those eggs from had some real pristine never exposed layers. 

That would be so devastating, and something I may end up facing. Part of me is afraid, and the other part is just plain excited. I haven't gotten any results yet, so I'm gonna call them in the morning. If I do have md, I will be pulling the eggs, I don't have a rooster, so maybe in the spring ill buy day olds, and get them immunized, with of course, a rooster, and start my own next fall or so.

The more time I have to think about it, the more I want to pull them. Boy I have some serious thinking to do.

I just want to thank everyone for their time and information. I truly wish to learn from all of you. And I'm also sorry for bringing up some of your bad experiences. I really don't want to breed them, just to have them die. I'm trying to look at this from a realistic way. If i have md, I haven't really begun to experience the full brunt of md. 2 ocular and 1 paralysis. Not to bad in my eye. From hearing some of the stories there is a whole lot more to md than what I'm experiencing. Maybe I really should wait and see what the future holds for my girls before I start breeding for resistance.

Deb