Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[Haunted55]

Can someone school me on marek's?
A little bit about us
We are first time chicken owners. We live in a town that recently approved backyard chickens(so it shouldn't be in the soil). We ordered 6 heritage breed pullets from a well recommended farm.

The pullets at time of arrival were between the ages of 9-12 wks back in June.
In July one of the Marans couldn't walk on her leg and her toes just curled up. Well we thought it was a injury then her wing would stick out and she started seizure like activity so we put her out of her misery(we tried to save for two wks).
Fast forward to this wk one of our lavender chickens couldn't open her eye and keeps her head twisted and cocked to the side. We started rinsing it with saline hoping that it was just a scratch(there is no swelling or obvious injury) but it didn't get better. Well we took her to the vet yesterday and they said it was mareks ocular form. Ugh. So we brought her home and plan to make her as happy as can be til it is time.

So my questions are this:
I have one chicken that is laying she's ok now that she made it to adult right? Or can she still succumb to it?

You say adult...how old is she now? After a year old is the normal thought in them being able to resist this diesease. As by this age they should have been exposed enough to have built up enough resistance to fight it off. Before that? It's a crap shoot.
Did they get marek's at the hatchery or could they of gotten it here?
What I don't understand is why this hatchery that has breeds that are rare to the US are selling birds with mareks. Any thoughts?
Do all chickens have mareks but only some are affected? Or is it possible to get a chicken that doesn't have it at all?
We've been looking to move out to the country so if we do should I take any remaining chickens with me or cull them and start new? I'm guessing start new that way we don't take this awful disease with us.
I'm sure I have more questions but right now I'm just numb from the shock of this. The lavender that is sick now is the nicest bird so friendly it breaks my heart to see her sick.
Thanks for the advice!
Janelle

The only way you will even have an educated guess as to where it came from, is to follow the path of these birds. Where you got them, private or commercial hatchery? Know anyone else who obatianed their birds from these people? See if you can find out and ask how their stock is doing. It could be one of the cases where it did come from the enviroment. There are so many ways it can be introduced to your birds. I would start with looking at the hatchery and seeing if you can find anything online pro or con about them. I am sorry this has happened to you and if you are planning on moving....there are two thoughts to this. You can take your remaining birds, knowing[?] you have Marek's in the flock and practise biosecurity until you wish you'd never heard that word or you can cull. Either way, to be honest, there is no guarantee you will not see this happen with new birds. Something you have to know now, since Marek's has been brought up, you need to act as if you, yourself have Marek's and take precautions to not spread this to anyone elses birds. You can carry the virus on your clothing, shoes, hair, etc., etc.. If you have a bird who has been diagnosed by a local Vet with Marek's I would be contacting the people at the link I will give you. You can have a blood sample drawn and sent off to these people and know for sure if you do in fact have Marek's there. I highly recommend this.
http://tvmdl.tamu.edu/tests_service...sease-(PCR)&unit_id=1187&unit_effdt=02-JUN-10

I would also tell you to read this and every other thread or information you can find on this disease.

 

[Haunted55]

Warning, this is a rant. Do not read if you don't want to hear it.

Ever have one of those days where the troubles seem to start even before you open your eyes? that's how mine has been so far today. I woke to my dog moaning and groaning and her hunching her back as if she was having stomach problems. Checked her out and her stomach did seem a little hard, no fever, no vomitting. At 6 am on a Saturday, there isn't much you can do for phone calls so popped her into the truck and started driving to a Vet recommended by a family member, hoping they would see her if I brought her to them. Saw another neighbor about a mile down the road and asked her opinion about the Vet I was heading for, she said I'd better go home and call as they didn't do drop-ins. Wait until after 8 am and called, by this time the dog seems to be more comfortable, was told they couldn't see her as they were short staffed. Called the animal emergency hospital and was told they'd need a credit card to see the dog. Cash is no good? Yadda, yadda....now I have to wait until late this afternoon for someone with a credit card for her to be seen. by this time it's way beyond time to do the chores, get out there and start in and just keep moving. Until I get to the pen that had my Control Group #2 in it. There lying on the floor is the one rooster with these girls. I had just gotten rid of the other two when we processed the meaties. There goes my hopes of getting a third group. Could I get more eggs from my first group from Marek's survivors, probably. I usually have a 60% rooster hatch rate here. Do I even want to try? I don't know....I really just want to throw in the towel and have done with it all. Today is a bad, bad day and I won't make a decision today, but I am really at an extremely low point. It looks to me as if he and the roos in the pen next to him were fighting through the wire. No marks on him that I could find, but the position of him was such that it made me think he had flown at the wire between them. Was it Marek's the disease? Doubtful, nothing up to now has pointed in that direction. Inside mess ups because of it? Possibly. I just don't know and with everything else will not have a necropsy done.

 

[mara1]

Haunted55

Sorry to here your day is rotten. Hope things turn around and yes I Know how you feel. Mine seems to be the last couple weeks though. I hope you dog gets better. Has she had any change's to her diet, vomiting or diarrhea?

 

[hogster160]

Warning, this is a rant. Do not read if you don't want to hear it.

Ever have one of those days where the troubles seem to start even before you open your eyes? that's how mine has been so far today. I woke to my dog moaning and groaning and her hunching her back as if she was having stomach problems. Checked her out and her stomach did seem a little hard, no fever, no vomitting. At 6 am on a Saturday, there isn't much you can do for phone calls so popped her into the truck and started driving to a Vet recommended by a family member, hoping they would see her if I brought her to them. Saw another neighbor about a mile down the road and asked her opinion about the Vet I was heading for, she said I'd better go home and call as they didn't do drop-ins. Wait until after 8 am and called, by this time the dog seems to be more comfortable, was told they couldn't see her as they were short staffed. Called the animal emergency hospital and was told they'd need a credit card to see the dog. Cash is no good? Yadda, yadda....now I have to wait until late this afternoon for someone with a credit card for her to be seen. by this time it's way beyond time to do the chores, get out there and start in and just keep moving. Until I get to the pen that had my Control Group #2 in it. There lying on the floor is the one rooster with these girls. I had just gotten rid of the other two when we processed the meaties. There goes my hopes of getting a third group. Could I get more eggs from my first group from Marek's survivors, probably. I usually have a 60% rooster hatch rate here. Do I even want to try? I don't know....I really just want to throw in the towel and have done with it all. Today is a bad, bad day and I won't make a decision today, but I am really at an extremely low point. It looks to me as if he and the roos in the pen next to him were fighting through the wire. No marks on him that I could find, but the position of him was such that it made me think he had flown at the wire between them. Was it Marek's the disease? Doubtful, nothing up to now has pointed in that direction. Inside mess ups because of it? Possibly. I just don't know and with everything else will not have a necropsy done.

You go right on a head and rant, we will listen, and if there is anything we can do to help, we will. I hope you pup gets better soon! Decisions can wait for another day!

 

[Haunted55]

Deb and Mara1, thanks so much. It's just been one of those and the only place I could get this out was here among those who understand. If I decide to continue, I have lost over 6 months with the breeding program. Never mind the loss of a beautiful guy. I am just so heartsick right now. His girls are in their pen singing a sad song tonight. There's not a darned thing I can do about it either. Can we say insignificant? I have been trying to do research all day long with the LL and now the breeding genetics of the Marek's. From what I have found, I have to start over with a new roo to make this follow the correct lines. I forgot one hard and fast rule for doing this. You never, ever not have the 'heir and a spare' to carry on the line. Mea culpa.

 

[Haunted55]

Today I took the dog to the Emergency Vet and was given a gift...it was not blockage it is arthritis where the spine connects to the pelvis bones. Poor girl, same place I have some of mine. So me and my old girl can now sit around and tell war stories about how we got these aches and pains, lol.

For the birds...for right now, I am going to be combining the 1st and 2nd Control Groups together Not ideal and not something i want to do, but space demands it right now. Since the second group has not started laying yet, it is still easy for me to get a clutch of the first's eggs for hatching. Six month set back, but what else can I do. I refuse to quit. I have too much blood, sweat and tears invested in this to do that.

Yesterday was a day of total despair, you get those when you choose this path. It ain't for the faint of heart. For those who read this and are trying to do the same as I am, all I can tell you is this...keep going forward. To back track and cull and clean is no guarantee you will not get Marek's again in your new flock. Biosecurity is great and I live it, but I can't control the wind and it, Marek's, is out there. The only true 'cure' for Marek's from what I can see now, is resistance breeding of the survivors. Without this, you will continually face loss of birds to it.

 

[triton77]

The only way you will even have an educated guess as to where it came from, is to follow the path of these birds.  Where you got them, private or commercial hatchery?  Know anyone else who obatianed their birds from these people?  See if you can find out and ask how their stock is doing.  It could be one of the cases where it did come from the enviroment.  There are so many ways it can be introduced to your birds.  I would start with looking at the hatchery and seeing if you can find anything online pro or con about them.  I am sorry this has happened to you and if you are planning on moving....there are two thoughts to this.  You can take your remaining birds, knowing[?] you have Marek's in the flock and practise biosecurity until you wish you'd never heard that word or you can cull.  Either way, to be honest, there is no guarantee you will not see this happen with new birds.  Something you have to know now, since Marek's has been brought up, you need to act as if you, yourself have Marek's and take precautions to not spread this to anyone elses birds.  You can carry the virus on your clothing, shoes, hair, etc., etc..  If you have a bird who has been diagnosed by a local Vet with Marek's I would be contacting the people at the link I will give you.  You can have a blood sample drawn and sent off to these people and know for sure if you do in fact have Marek's there.  I highly recommend this.
http://tvmdl.tamu.edu/tests_service...sease-(PCR)&unit_id=1187&unit_effdt=02-JUN-10

I would also tell you to read this and every other thread or information you can find on this disease.

Thanks for the reply!
We never had the other chicken tested that died cause we thought it was a injury. I wish we had now and I will hav this one tested if she dies. Does anyone know if you can draw a blood sample on a live bird?

My chickens are all less than 30 wks old so I'm guessing that's not considered adult? Ugh. So I'm likely gonna lose them all.
Do you think my chickens picked up mareks here? They were here about 1mo before we lost the first one.
They came from a private hatchery where they only raise heritage breed chickens. They actually have some rare breeds ones too. I don't think this hatchery vaccinates for mareks or at least there website doesn't say they do. I've learned my lesson now only vaccinated chicks.

I have a question on showing chickens. My daughter wanted to show these ones in 4H ( not gonna happen now) but how do you know that your chickens won't pick up mareks at a show? Or even something else?
When we move I will cull any remaining birds left. I don't want to take it with me.
I'm so sorry for anyone else going through this and losing their birds this is a awful disease.

For now we are treating our sick lavender chicken like its wry neck but I'm pretty sure given the other sick bird we had that its mareks.

Janelle

 

[julie0477]

Any time I go to the fair or poultry show I just assume there is mareks there. It's pretty common and vaccinated birds can carry it with absolutely no outward signs. Just wash your clothes take a shower and clean your shoes when you return.

Haunted - sorry it's been such a rough week over there. I hope this coming up week is better.

I still have my limpy silkie rooster. I am anxious to get the necropsy results from Junior (the young roo I lost hopefully due to injury). Even after the vet visit I'm worried and my limpy rooster isn't helping! He's been limping off and on for a few weeks now. He is free range and likes to roost high with the big chickens so anything can be causing the limp but .... Just a lot of coincidences for me to relax just yet.

Hogster - how is your hen? Better, worse, or any changes at all?

Hope everyone had a good weekend

 

[Nambroth]

Thanks for the reply!
We never had the other chicken tested that died cause we thought it was a injury. I wish we had now and I will hav this one tested if she dies. Does anyone know if you can draw a blood sample on a live bird?

My chickens are all less than 30 wks old so I'm guessing that's not considered adult? Ugh. So I'm likely gonna lose them all.

Do you think my chickens picked up mareks here? They were here about 1mo before we lost the first one.
They came from a private hatchery where they only raise heritage breed chickens. They actually have some rare breeds ones too. I don't think this hatchery vaccinates for mareks or at least there website doesn't say they do. I've learned my lesson now only vaccinated chicks.

I have a question on showing chickens. My daughter wanted to show these ones in 4H ( not gonna happen now) but how do you know that your chickens won't pick up mareks at a show? Or even something else?
When we move I will cull any remaining birds left. I don't want to take it with me.
I'm so sorry for anyone else going through this and losing their birds this is a awful disease.

For now we are treating our sick lavender chicken like its wry neck but I'm pretty sure given the other sick bird we had that its mareks.

Janelle

It really might be worth the time and effort to get a blood draw and get your flock tested. It could save you a lot of money and grief-- maybe it is not Marek's! I re-read your earlier posts and while the symptoms DO fit, they also fit other chicken ailments and they alone should not be considered a diagnosis. Be careful, of course, not to spread it in case you do have it in your flock, but it sounds like you have valuable birds, both financially but also valuable to your family. Testing could ease your mind and also might make it so that you can show your birds.

As far as shows go, there is a lot of debate on this!! I was just reading in another thread that some feel that shows are one of the safest places to bring birds, but I disagree. It would only take one person with a Marek's bird or even just bringing it in on their shoes or clothes to spread it, since it is most typically transmitted via dander. If you have had your peeps in the house or ever been in the coop when someone gets to flapping, you know how fine that dust is, and how easily it blows! That's dander, and it travels easily. That said, if your flock tests free of Marek's and you want to show, don't let this scare stop you. Life is about risks and rewards. Weigh it carefully and use precautions. There is also a new research out that suggests that vaccinating older birds that have never been exposed to Marek's might help them build up some immunity. It is very important, of course, not to let this give a false sense of security-- the MOST effective time to vaccinate is before chicks are 24 hours old.

I know this is all a lot to think on. Trust me, none of us here in this thread really knew what was going to happen to our silly lives when we got into chickens. I bet some of us hadn't heard about Marek's. I had, and I vaccinated, but now my girls are carriers because they have been exposed to live chicken Marek's virus. It's a rollercoaster but with care and education one can live with it!

 

[Haunted55]

Thanks for the reply!
We never had the other chicken tested that died cause we thought it was a injury. I wish we had now and I will hav this one tested if she dies. Does anyone know if you can draw a blood sample on a live bird?

My chickens are all less than 30 wks old so I'm guessing that's not considered adult? Ugh. So I'm likely gonna lose them all.
Do you think my chickens picked up mareks here? They were here about 1mo before we lost the first one.
They came from a private hatchery where they only raise heritage breed chickens. They actually have some rare breeds ones too. I don't think this hatchery vaccinates for mareks or at least there website doesn't say they do. I've learned my lesson now only vaccinated chicks.

I have a question on showing chickens. My daughter wanted to show these ones in 4H ( not gonna happen now) but how do you know that your chickens won't pick up mareks at a show? Or even something else?
When we move I will cull any remaining birds left. I don't want to take it with me.
I'm so sorry for anyone else going through this and losing their birds this is a awful disease.

For now we are treating our sick lavender chicken like its wry neck but I'm pretty sure given the other sick bird we had that its mareks.

Janelle

I believe a year is considered an adult and yes you draw the blood from live bird. You don't know and that's why I personally would never do it. also, there are other nasties out there you can pick up even easier than Marek's and they also stay with the flock forever. As for culling? That is your choice to make. I can understand it but I also know that just because you start over, doesn't mean you aren't going to end up with it again. It's out there and the right circumstances will introduce it to a new flock as well. If you do this, make sure you buy birds from a hatchery that immunizes with all three types of vaccine. Unless you can find a breeder who has had all of the testing done to prove type B blood type, you can't be sure you will not see this again.

If you are giving the bird the Super B Complex as well, you have a chance. Like I said before, not all Vets are well versed in Marek's and it's diagnosis.