Nutrition especially for your Peas

[frenchblackcopper]

Well I got my 2000 pounds mixed and home yesterday. This stuff weighs like a pound cake compared to what I was feeding before. If anyone here thinks peas cannot tell a difference in color,,think again. Last nite I fed all the birds this new ration. It looks nothing like what they have been on,except the two colors that has been on this feed for the past two breeding seasons now. I've never seen so many stink eye looks at bowls of feed before. And the head turning they did was hilarious. They only got about 1/2 the amount of normal feed so tonight it should be a free for all. My feed place does have fish protein meal at 60% protein levels,which will be added next time instead of soybean meal.

 

[Trefoil]

fbCopper- can I ask where you get your feed mixed? The local elevator for me doesn't have available, and at the level I use won't order, fish meal and many of the other ingredients I would like to try. I tried catfish pellets from TSC, until I really read their ingredients. I read the article Minx linked for us but have yet to find the article it referred to. I was surprised that the feed manufacturer would admit that their feed isn't good for "home birds" which it obviously is being marketed to. Still, it gave me pause as I tend to want to feed more than 16% protein. I have never, even with my dogs,consistently feed the same feed. I think its asking for problems. Even though I ferment their food and so am adding things like brewers yeast to "wet" feed, the fine stuff tends to separate out and tends to sit in the bottom of the bowl uneaten. As I'm sure you are aware, that is much of the reason molasses is added to horse feed (for example), so they can't separate out the soybean meal that doesn't taste good. Let us know if this happens with your new batch, please, and how you are able to override this. How fine a mix did you end up with? And is this going to be their only food? It will be interesting to see how this works out.

 

[frenchblackcopper]

Trefoil,,this feed we mixed yesterday is pretty much the same that I have used experimentally on two specific colors of peas,the past two breeding seasons to increase my hatch rates to 90%,with one exception for this batch.My protein level is down to 18.9% where as my two test pens,during full breeding season is right at 26%.
We have a local grain elevator that handles Hubbard feed products,and custom grinds feed for local farmers,and then can deliver by bulk feed truck.They can,with proper notice get me almost anything I want to be added into my ration.I have 100 pounds each of Milo and Red Millet,which was put on their delivery truck which comes once a week.I specifically added 5 pounds of trace minerals to this batch because I hadn't had enough time to run the analysis of each ingredient to know where I was at using this ration.But I do know my protein level,and that I have plenty of B vitamins,and essential Omega 3 and Omega 6.
I too have experienced seeing the soybean meal left in the bottom of the feed bowl. I am not sure what directs a peafowl to like or dislike feed.Do they taste sweetness? I say yes,as evidenced by feeding ripe watermelons and over ripe bananas. I have considered making a wet mash for them to eat,but during the winter,I feed enough for 2 days,giving me one night to just water,and make observations. Wet feed here during the summertime would prove making the feed change smells,and from what I've seen here,if we get a big rain,soaking their feed in the bowls that they have not yet consumed,they will not eat it,once the excess water is drained off,leaving crumbles that looks like soup.
My feed is rather fine,much the same consistancy as corn meal except for the corn which is cracked.If you can get your birds so they are hungry at feeding time,they will eat everything,,this is why yesterday I only gave every pen only 1/2 of what I normally feed them.With cold weather coming,they need protien and high digestability.If too high of certain vitamins are given,the bird simply will not absorb what it doesn't need. Also very little calcium is in this mix,breeding ration this is increased.
Yes,this same baseline feed mixture will now be every birds diet,not just confined to the two test pens.There are 2 key ingredients mixed in this feed that is 100% responsible for the increased fertility,higher egg count,and higher hatch rates that I will not mention here.
I do not know what state you live in,nor how many peas you have.If you can buy enough feed ingredients to make a full pallet,your local elevator should honor your request.If they don't,look at another source and buy enough in one order to last several months worth of feed to make it worth your while.My only concern with fish meal is the salt content,which I need to research more.The trace minerals found in fish meal is remarkable as well,not found in corn or soybeans.And I also do not know the price of fish meal,compared to soybean and corn distiller grain.The boss was at lunch when we mixed my batch so I couldn't inquire about fish meal more.

 

[Trefoil]

With the feed that finely ground they shouldn't be able to sort the soy out. I'm not sure about minerals, but water soluble vitamins that they don't use they just discard, but vitamins that aren't water soluble are stored in the body ( the fat if I recall correctly) and overdoses can cause problems. Alltimers has hit and I can't off the top of my head recall which are water soluble, That's funny about them not liking rained on food, mine eat the fermented, which is at best moist, and prefer it, but they also won't touch food that gets rained on. I ferment whole grains. Please let us know how this works out. It would be nice if there were some fast way to tell if they are getting optimum nutrition.

 

[frenchblackcopper]

Trefoil,,later today I will get a pic of the feed,and an analysis(not lab based) but from known levels in the feed we mixed.Calcium can be harmful if too much is fed. 2 specific amino acids can be harmful as well,but by the way the supplement is made,renders one of them not an issue,I have recorded results from the two breeding groups that was fed this feed for the past two breeding seasons. But I have nothing prior to that on these two groups because we didn't have them yet.One valuable comparision I made this year was both my control groups that consisted of total of 2 peacocks(Midnight b/s and BSSP) with their hens numbering a total of 8,,,to my big pen of India Blues,which had 8 hens,and a IB Pied peacock and a barred IB Peacock,,exact same number of birds.
Some may think it's strange but I don't place a lot of value of my IB pen,all the birds in that pen was hatched by me,and all will be 4 years old this coming year,only variable is my BSSP Peacock and 2 hens are maybe 6 years old,all the Midnights are coming 4 year olds,same as the IB pen.
In 2012,the first year the IB pen could breed and lay eggs,I had about a 60% higher egg laying and hatch rate,than this past summer,and they matured another year.In 2012,the IB pen with 8 hens laid an average of 17 eggs per hen,this year that average was down to 8 eggs per hen.My midnight and bssp pen last year averaged 24 and 28 eggs per hen respectively,,this year that number increased to 27 for the Midnight pen per hen,and 31 eggs per hen from the bssp hens. Each year I start recording April 15th-August 15th. The IB pen was fed commercial layer crumbles with a 16% protein value both this and last year,while my Midnights and BSSP pen was fed my 26% protein custom mixed feed with our special 2 additives.

 

[casportpony]

Interesting thread... I've was thinking about using some bone meal yesterday, lol. This is what I just found on meat and bone meal:

Source: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps024

Table 1.
Table 1: Nutrient values for meat and bone meal according to survey of feed companies.
Moisture 3.0 - 11.2%
Crude protein 49.0 - 52.8%
Crude fat 8.5 - 14.8%
Calcium 6.0 - 12.0%
Total phosphorus 3.5 - 5.0%
Lysine 2.2 - 3.0%
Metabolizable energy for poultry 1770 - 2420 MCal/kg


And this:
http://www.meatupdate.csiro.au/infosheets/Meat and Bone Meal - 1997.pdf

Disclaimer: I have no idea what any of it means, lol.

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

Source: http://www.feedipedia.org/node/12323

Meat and bone meal, high-fat



IMPORTANT INFORMATION: This table is pending revision and updating; its contents are currently derived from FAO's Animal Feed Resources Information System (1991-2002) and from Bo Göhl's Tropical Feeds (1976-1982).

Main analysis​

Unit​

Avg​

SD​

Min​

Max​

Nb​

​

Dry matter​

% as fed​

95.8​

1.5​

90.1​

98.8​

5635​

Crude protein​

% DM​

54.9​

3.4​

45.6​

68.6​

5661​

Ether extract​

% DM​

11.4​

1.9​

6.8​

17.2​

2688​

Ether extract, HCl hydrolysis​

% DM​

12.1​

1.9​

8.0​

18.2​

2225​

Ash​

% DM​

30.5​

3.6​

15.7​

40.6​

5412​

Gross energy​

MJ/kg DM​

17.7​

0.9​

16.2​

19.7​

54​

*

Minerals​

Unit​

Avg​

SD​

Min​

Max​

Nb​

​

Calcium​

g/kg DM​

101.1​

16.8​

42.1​

148.2​

3883​

Phosphorus​

g/kg DM​

48.7​

7.7​

22.1​

68.9​

3967​

Potassium​

g/kg DM​

4.6​

0.7​

3.5​

6.1​

86​

Sodium​

g/kg DM​

7.5​

1.3​

5.2​

11.5​

909​

Magnesium​

g/kg DM​

2.2​

0.2​

1.9​

2.3​

18​

Manganese​

mg/kg DM​

26​

13​

8​

47​

19​

Zinc​

mg/kg DM​

114​

11​

98​

142​

18​

Copper​

mg/kg DM​

21​

11​

6​

42​

19​

Iron​

mg/kg DM​

615​

402​

268​

1390​

35​

Amino acids​

Unit​

Avg​

SD​

Min​

Max​

Nb​

​

Alanine​

% protein​

7.6​

0.6​

6.4​

8.9​

129​

Arginine​

% protein​

6.9​

0.4​

6.0​

8.1​

137​

Aspartic acid​

% protein​

7.4​

0.5​

6.4​

8.5​

131​

Cystine​

% protein​

1.1​

0.3​

0.6​

1.8​

136​

Glutamic acid​

% protein​

11.9​

0.6​

10.5​

13.3​

130​

Glycine​

% protein​

12.7​

1.3​

10.3​

15.3​

142​

Histidine​

% protein​

2.1​

0.4​

1.4​

2.8​

125​

Isoleucine​

% protein​

2.9​

0.2​

2.3​

3.4​

185​

Leucine​

% protein​

6.0​

0.5​

5.2​

7.3​

176​

Lysine​

% protein​

5.0​

0.4​

4.1​

5.9​

211​

Methionine​

% protein​

1.3​

0.1​

1.0​

1.6​

146​

Phenylalanine​

% protein​

3.4​

0.2​

3.0​

3.9​

163​

Proline​

% protein​

8.1​

0.6​

6.9​

9.1​

74​

Serine​

% protein​

4.0​

0.5​

3.2​

5.1​

140​

Threonine​

% protein​

3.3​

0.3​

2.7​

4.1​

198​

Tryptophan​

% protein​

0.6​

0.1​

0.4​

0.9​

53​

Tyrosine​

% protein​

2.2​

0.2​

1.9​

2.7​

98​

Valine​

% protein​

4.4​

0.4​

3.6​

5.6​

183​

Ruminant nutritive values​

Unit​

Avg​

SD​

Min​

Max​

Nb​

​

a (N)​

%​

27.7​

​

26.5​

28.9​

2​

b (N)​

%​

44.4​

​

40.1​

48.7​

2​

c (N)​

h-1​

0.050​

​

0.040​

0.060​

2​

Nitrogen degradability (effective, k=4%)​

%​

52​

​

​

​

​

*

Nitrogen degradability (effective, k=6%)​

%​

48​

11​

46​

80​

7​

*

Pig nutritive values​

Unit​

Avg​

SD​

Min​

Max​

Nb​

​

Energy digestibility, growing pig​

%​

68.7​

6.1​

54.1​

79.9​

18​

DE growing pig​

MJ/kg DM​

12.1​

1.7​

9.1​

15.2​

19​

*

MEn growing pig​

MJ/kg DM​

10.9​

​

7.3​

10.9​

2​

*

NE growing pig​

MJ/kg DM​

7.5​

​

​

​

​

*

Nitrogen digestibility, growing pig​

%​

81.2​

3.1​

75.0​

86.1​

29​

Poultry nutritive values​

Unit​

Avg​

SD​

Min​

Max​

Nb​

​

AMEn cockerel​

MJ/kg DM​

11.8​

0.7​

10.6​

13.6​

26​

The asterisk * indicates that the average value was obtained by an equation.
References

ADAS, 1988; AFZ, 2011; American Meat Institute Foundation, 1960; Batterham et al., 1980; Batterham et al., 1990; Berk et al., 1995; Cave, 1988; CIRAD, 1991; CIRAD, 1994; Cirad, 2008; Clark et al., 1997; De Vuyst et al., 1964; Devendra et al., 1970; Dewar, 1967; El-Sayed, 1998; Erasmus et al., 1994; Furuya et al., 1988; Göhl, 1982; Gowda et al., 2004; Howie et al., 1996; Jacob et al., 1996; Jongbloed et al., 1990; Jorgensen et al., 1984; Kamalak et al., 2005; Karunajeewa et al., 1987; Knabe et al., 1989; Knaus et al., 1998; Landry et al., 1988; Lechevestrier, 1992; Lechevestrier, 1996; Leibholz, 1979; Lessire et al., 1982; Lessire et al., 1984; Madsen et al., 1984; Mantysaari et al., 1989; Mariscal Landin, 1992; Masoero et al., 1994; McNab et al., 1988; Nadeem et al., 2005; Naik, 1967; Nengas et al., 1995; Oluyemi et al., 1976; Parsons, 1986; Partanen et al., 1994; Partanen, 1994; Petit, 1992; Pion, 1970; Pozy et al., 1996; Qiao ShiYan et al., 2004; Rajaguru et al., 1985; Rose et al., 1984; San Juan et al., 1993; Sauer et al., 1989; Schang et al., 1982; Shi et al., 1993; Stangeland, 1997; Steen, 1989; Susmel et al., 1989; Taverner et al., 1983; Vérité et al., 1990; Waldroup et al., 1994; Walker, 1975
Last updated on 24/10/2012 00:44:34
Datasheet
Meat and bone meal
TABLE UNDER CONSTRUCTION. DO NOT QUOTE.

 

[casportpony]

Source: http://www.feedipedia.org/node/13628

Meat and bone meal, low-fat



IMPORTANT INFORMATION: This table is pending revision and updating; its contents are currently derived from FAO's Animal Feed Resources Information System (1991-2002) and from Bo Göhl's Tropical Feeds (1976-1982).

Main analysis​

Unit​

Avg​

SD​

Min​

Max​

Nb​

​

Dry matter​

% as fed​

93.2​

2.0​

88.6​

97.6​

1546​

Crude protein​

% DM​

62.0​

4.5​

50.8​

72.1​

1566​

Ether extract​

% DM​

3.7​

1.3​

1.6​

7.5​

1213​

Ether extract, HCl hydrolysis​

% DM​

5.3​

1.0​

3.5​

7.5​

293​

Ash​

% DM​

29.8​

4.7​

18.8​

41.5​

1516​

Gross energy​

MJ/kg DM​

16.7​

1.2​

13.3​

17.5​

18​

*

Minerals​

Unit​

Avg​

SD​

Min​

Max​

Nb​

​

Calcium​

g/kg DM​

94.4​

22.0​

37.6​

143.2​

1409​

Phosphorus​

g/kg DM​

45.8​

10.0​

19.6​

70.0​

1407​

Potassium​

g/kg DM​

5.1​

1.0​

2.7​

6.5​

29​

Sodium​

g/kg DM​

7.5​

0.9​

5.3​

10.5​

82​

Magnesium​

g/kg DM​

1.5​

​

​

​

1​

Iron​

mg/kg DM​

495​

​

380​

611​

2​

Amino acids​

Unit​

Avg​

SD​

Min​

Max​

Nb​

​

Alanine​

% protein​

7.3​

0.3​

6.7​

8.0​

35​

Arginine​

% protein​

6.7​

0.2​

6.3​

7.0​

29​

Aspartic acid​

% protein​

7.6​

0.5​

6.8​

8.5​

36​

Cystine​

% protein​

1.2​

0.2​

0.7​

1.7​

33​

Glutamic acid​

% protein​

11.8​

0.5​

10.8​

12.6​

36​

Glycine​

% protein​

12.3​

1.3​

10.0​

14.3​

36​

Histidine​

% protein​

2.7​

0.4​

1.7​

3.3​

27​

Isoleucine​

% protein​

2.8​

0.2​

2.3​

3.1​

36​

Leucine​

% protein​

6.2​

0.5​

5.3​

7.4​

36​

Lysine​

% protein​

5.0​

0.4​

4.2​

6.0​

54​

Methionine​

% protein​

1.4​

0.1​

1.2​

1.6​

40​

Phenylalanine​

% protein​

3.5​

0.3​

3.1​

4.0​

35​

Proline​

% protein​

8.4​

0.5​

7.5​

9.1​

18​

Serine​

% protein​

4.5​

0.2​

3.8​

5.0​

36​

Threonine​

% protein​

3.4​

0.3​

3.0​

3.9​

38​

Tryptophan​

% protein​

0.8​

0.1​

0.6​

0.9​

21​

Tyrosine​

% protein​

2.3​

0.2​

2.0​

2.6​

27​

Valine​

% protein​

4.5​

0.5​

3.6​

5.3​

36​

Ruminant nutritive values​

Unit​

Avg​

SD​

Min​

Max​

Nb​

​

Nitrogen degradability (effective, k=6%)​

%​

46​

​

45​

47​

2​

Pig nutritive values​

Unit​

Avg​

SD​

Min​

Max​

Nb​

​

Energy digestibility, growing pig​

%​

69.1​

15.7​

42.5​

82.1​

5​

DE growing pig​

MJ/kg DM​

11.6​

2.1​

8.5​

14.0​

5​

*

MEn growing pig​

MJ/kg DM​

10.2​

1.9​

6.1​

11.0​

6​

*

NE growing pig​

MJ/kg DM​

6.5​

​

​

​

​

*

Nitrogen digestibility, growing pig​

%​

82.1​

2.6​

79.2​

84.9​

4​

Poultry nutritive values​

Unit​

Avg​

SD​

Min​

Max​

Nb​

​

AMEn cockerel​

MJ/kg DM​

11.9​

1.5​

9.8​

13.4​

5​

The asterisk * indicates that the average value was obtained by an equation.
References

AFZ, 2011; Aufrère et al., 1991; CIRAD, 1991; Green et al., 1989; Han et al., 1976; Lessire et al., 1982; Lessire et al., 1984; Mariscal Landin, 1992; Morgan et al., 1975; Perez et al., 1984; Vervaeke et al., 1989
Last updated on 24/10/2012 00:45:39
Datasheet
Meat and bone meal
TABLE UNDER CONSTRUCTION. DO NOT QUOTE.

 

[zazouse]

I have tried the game bird mix. My peas would hardly eat most of it. They would pick out mainly the sunflower seeds and a few other seeds and leave the rest. Needless to say it was not worth using when they hardly ate it. Again and again I noted how they really love the black oil sunflower seeds so that is their main feed.

I give them a bunch of black oil sunflower seeds every day and a few days I week I give them catfish chow and leftovers. My peas probably need more vegetables so I should think about making a garden for them. They really love eating big 4 leaf clovers and other weeds so I could even make a weed garden along with a regular vegetable garden. The main problem I have seen since the disappearance of grass in their pen (and maybe even due to the amount of peafowl) is that the peahen's peachicks don't get enough of the nutrition they would be getting from bugs. I provide them with the chick starter but the peahen would rather eat sunflower seeds. I have better luck with the chicks I hand raise. The bugs are definitely important. I try to catch grasshoppers for my peafowl or any kind of bug for that matter and they go crazy over it. The catfish chow might be giving them some of that nutrition but they just love the bugs. I love to find a big grub for them or a large black beetle. The one that gets the bug will be chased all over the pen by the other peafowl.

There is a very interesting UPA article about captive vs. wild diet: http://www.unitedpeafowlassociation.org/CaptiveBirdDietsVersesWildBirdDiets.html

I do hope everyone read this link that you posted it is well written and informative, thanks Minx

 

[MinxFox]

Here is the part from that link I posted that really stands out:
Quote: