NY chicken lover!!!!

[Overhill Flocks]

are you going let the chicken rest in the frig 3 days 1st ?

Sure did Gramma! We've been getting our chicken from a local pasture based farm for years and years -- we pick it up the same day as they process, so we're used to the drill. These boys were done last week and went into the freezer last weekend after a chilled rest period. They look great -- now to see how they taste!

 

[marquisella]

Quote: I found out that you can freeze processed chickens first, then let thaw in the refrigerator for 3 days and it is the same as letting them sit before freezing..just remember to mark the ones that need the 3 days after freezing to relax the rigamortis.

 

[marquisella]

Quote: Here are my 2 cents worth, and I won't post about it anymore either.

I didn't grow up on a farm, but when I wanted to do something that involved animals, I read a lot, asked questions, used the person I bought them from as mentors and picked their brains.
What did I learn? I learned how to breed golden retrievers & Cavalier King Charles Spaniels & bred champions for 20- years. Then I wanted sheep, I went to classes & learned to spin & improve my knittinng skills. Had them for 15 years. Sold breeding stock, wool & yarn. Angora Rabbits as well. Then, bred & showed horses, some of whom I still have today. Chickens were my last venture. Bought books, talked to people at poultry shows, then, learned through the college of hard knocks. What I will say now, is the internet is probably the best way to learn, but you have to understand, that probably 50% of what you read is false. Talk to someone who is successful, and you can see their success in person.

If dirtiness is a problem for you, honestly, any animal, except maybe dogs & cats are not for you. There is a cartoon, and I wish I could reproduce it here, but basically, it shows a very dirty horse, and a clean person coming to groom the horse. The next picture, shows a cloud of dust and you cannot see either of them. The last picture shows a sparkling clean horse, and a very, very dirty discheveled person, worn out. That about sums up dealing with animals.

You will probably find that buying eggs from the farmer down the road to bake with is your best bet. Sometimes, and especially during these cold days, and yes, during the hot humid summers, I just wish I could wave my magic wand and have the everyday chores done and not have to go outside & spend, sometimes hours, feeding, cleaning, etc. the animals...

Yes, I do like to watch them, especially now that I just got some geese and ducks, and yes, I'm learning about them. But my next hobby, will not involve anything alive that I have to feed or clean up after...actually I do have hobbies that are like that, jewelry & soap...Don't have to feed them, and I can put them away for months at a time, and go back to them, and not one necklace or bar of soap is dead!

The end

 

[Overhill Flocks]

Yes, a chicken can be put down just like a mammal....but at what cost? I understand it cost my brother $69 to have his dog put down. Are you really prepared to pay $69 for each bird you have to put down?

I have been at this for 2 plus a little years.....I had one develop (what I suspect was ) Merek's...had to put it out of it's misery or watch it die from starvation. Had a rooster flog me repeatedly. I don't want (and you shouldn't want) a human aggressive rooster on the property. He needed to die (or be rehomed, but that rarely happens). That's $138 bucks to put down chickens? Really? One was a free chick and the other I paid $10 for. There are a lot of ways I want to spend my money....2 days pay to do something I could easily (at least physically) do myself? Not a good use of funds, in my opinion.

Now if you want to EAT the bird (and I do) you can't use chemical means to kill them. Whatever method you decide is easiest for you to use....including sending them out or selling them to someone who will butcher them...is up to you. But eventually you will need a bird dead, it's just part of owning animals.

Cost issues aside, I would not choose to have my own birds euthanized in a veterinary setting, even though I work in the industry. It is possible to euthanize a bird at a veterinary facility, but I have to tell you that the experience is very different for avians than it is for mammals. Unless you are able to find an avian specialist (or at very least a veterinarian who is comfortable with birds), you will likely be dealing with someone who handles birds infrequently. While injection into a wing vein is recommended and possible, many birds will struggle and/or have veins that are challenging to "hit" with a needle. Sadly, some birds may end up with the injection being given by the intracardiac route, which basically means that the veterinarian will stick the needle into the chest and try to inject directly into the heart.

There is controversy in the human (capital punishment) realm right now about the use of the same drug widely used for veterinary euthanasia. We know that this drug stings when it is administered outside of a vein, and so most veterinarians will insist on placing an intravenous catheter in your pet dog or cat prior to administering this drug. At my practice, we also administer an initial dose of another mild sedative, as we know that this drug will let the animal gently lose consciousness prior to administering the drug that will cause organ shut-down and death.

There is no catheter placement possible for a bird in a practical setting, so the chances of the drug being administered outside a vein are increased. If you're administering directly into the heart, then all bets are off. It is likely that the bird's experience is unpleasant, potentially painful, and we haven't even started talking about that fact that it is outside of it's normal environment, being restrained in weird ways by strangers, in a place that smells like predators (dogs and cats), etc, etc. Add on the fact that the veterinarian and veterinary staff are likely as stressed about this prospect as the bird and the situation continues to worsen. There are a few avian specialists in the country who, I am sure, can and do avoid this kind of scenario but they are rare. The only such specialists in upstate NY are at Cornell University.

There. More than anyone ever wanted to know about veterinary euthanasia for avians! I will choose keeping the birds home where they will experience, at worst, a few confusing minutes before death.

 

[why do birds]

yes - if you could make it to our nearly weekly chat .... wow ... will the information flow !

And if you come all the way out to Pyxis' place - you can pop over to mine and see my new barn, the trees and the pasture with the bigger animals and how that is set up. Even planning your fruit tree placement takes planning into the future and knowledge of the prevailing winds and weather patterns.

Some people heat their barn - they are the ones who then have more health problems in their animals .....

I build a new barn - after living and working for 4 years and knowing what I wanted ... my new barn doesn't even have electricity ! by choice (anti-fire) and certainly no heat.

Deer, turkeys, wild birds, cardinals - they are all surviving this -30 degree weather ... so imagine how much better off any animals to whom you have given some shelter from the wind and a sure supply of food.


It makes sense that you want to retire and have a farm - but not one that you depend on to finance your life - the farm is like your retirement fun - so I get that ... and I get that you will have a different amount time and goals than most farmers .... so you aren't concerned as much as some about making money from your farm. You've just got to go visiting before you start building - once you build - then you are stuck doing modifications!!! Take a weekend and come out to visit us ... you will see all sorts of different set ups and I have a grumpy old farmer just down the road with some cattle - and he seems glad to talk to people about it ... the grumpier the old farmer - the better advice you will get. ha ha ha ha He is going in for leg surgery and I will be checking in to make sure his son does things right .... he is so worried about being off his feet for 2 weeks .... worried about his animals. I tell you, that son has no appreciation, I would love to have that opportunity come to me and then would continue the farm. So many young ones inherit the farm and sell it off - then it becomes dead land.

I applaud you for wanting your land to be vibrant and healthy when you get to live on it.

I would absolutely like to meet you! Before I was born, my grandfather had chickens. My father, very old man now, didn't really talk about it much. So I asked him today, he's in very bad health, about chickens. He said, when he was a little boy, they never had a chicken with frostbite, ever. They retained 30 laying hens over the winter in a heated coop. He said the chickens didn't go outside in weather like this and his mother got about an egg a day, all winter. This was depression era so at this time the eggs would have been very important.

At that time, I understand, that my family fed many strangers. My dad did say that yes, you should heat the area for laying chickens in winter, and always provide water, lots and lots of water, that is warm enough to drink. He said water is the most important thing for the layers in winter. I mean, he's old, so as times have improved it would seem that the ability to have animals in much better conditions would be more available. Maybe others disagree with this, citing that other animals live in the cold, but likewise chickens can live in very warm climates too, that do not get freezing cold temperatures. Is there an objective, controlled study to show that exposure of a chicken to very cold temperatures improves the overall health of the bird? As opposed to having a chicken living in temperate climates? I mean, without the research, it's only varying opinions. I'm not sure where to go to find animal studies. PubMed and NIH sites predominantly apply to humans.

I'd love to meet the old farmers! And new farmers! And see the current set-ups, for chickens, other animals, and gardening/fruit trees. It's true that this isn't a money making venture. It'd be nice for the farm to have income and pay bills, because corporate development is so cool. It's a real accomplishment to watch a business develop and eventually become sustainable. This retirement project isn't to "get rich", but to enjoy life a little. The stock market works very well for making money, LOL!

 

[horsekeeper]

Overhill, what a wonderful informative post. Thank you for taking the time to explain all the details. I have had several horses, cats, and dogs euthanized and it is not always as peaceful as some may think, even sedated. Had no idea there were additional issues with birds.

 

[Overhill Flocks]

Overhill, what a wonderful informative post. Thank you for taking the time to explain all the details. I have had several horses, cats, and dogs euthanized and it is not always as peaceful as some may think, even sedated. Had no idea there were additional issues with birds.

Thank you. I feel it is both a privilege and an immense responsibility to be able to permanently relieve suffering for an animal. It is difficult for us in the veterinary setting - every single time. Some in our world develop a callus of sorts that helps them move through the process. Those individuals I truly admire and am grateful for never stop thinking about the process and never stop trying to make it less and less stressful for their patients and for the pet owners.

 

[Lynzi777]

Well I thought the rat issue was resolved...Nope! We put one of the traps out front a couple of days ago. I went out there to look for it under all the snow and found a rat on it! YUCK!!!! There is another one out there that I can't find. I want to bring them inside, well now maybe only one seeing as how we caught another out there, and place it in the basement because my son said he's been hearing something in his wall of his bedroom. GREAT!

 

[why do birds]

Cost issues aside, I would not choose to have my own birds euthanized in a veterinary setting, even though I work in the industry. It is possible to euthanize a bird at a veterinary facility, but I have to tell you that the experience is very different for avians than it is for mammals. Unless you are able to find an avian specialist (or at very least a veterinarian who is comfortable with birds), you will likely be dealing with someone who handles birds infrequently. While injection into a wing vein is recommended and possible, many birds will struggle and/or have veins that are challenging to "hit" with a needle. Sadly, some birds may end up with the injection being given by the intracardiac route, which basically means that the veterinarian will stick the needle into the chest and try to inject directly into the heart.

There is controversy in the human (capital punishment) realm right now about the use of the same drug widely used for veterinary euthanasia. We know that this drug stings when it is administered outside of a vein, and so most veterinarians will insist on placing an intravenous catheter in your pet dog or cat prior to administering this drug. At my practice, we also administer an initial dose of another mild sedative, as we know that this drug will let the animal gently lose consciousness prior to administering the drug that will cause organ shut-down and death.

There is no catheter placement possible for a bird in a practical setting, so the chances of the drug being administered outside a vein are increased. If you're administering directly into the heart, then all bets are off. It is likely that the bird's experience is unpleasant, potentially painful, and we haven't even started talking about that fact that it is outside of it's normal environment, being restrained in weird ways by strangers, in a place that smells like predators (dogs and cats), etc, etc. Add on the fact that the veterinarian and veterinary staff are likely as stressed about this prospect as the bird and the situation continues to worsen. There are a few avian specialists in the country who, I am sure, can and do avoid this kind of scenario but they are rare. The only such specialists in upstate NY are at Cornell University.

There. More than anyone ever wanted to know about veterinary euthanasia for avians! I will choose keeping the birds home where they will experience, at worst, a few confusing minutes before death.

Thanks for this info Overhill!

When we lived on the coast the market carried live fish. The butcher in seafood, would take out the fish, hit it in the head with a mallet and proceed to process it for you to take home to cook. He was awesome, this was so humane. He even provided recipes! Someone mentioned knocking the bird in the head with a pipe to "stun" the bird. Think that's a great idea too! I'm not used to animal IV establishment, but can imagine how difficult attempts at a wing IV in a small bird would be. Good lord, I respect the heck out of those neonatal caregivers. So can't imagine trying to get a venous route established on a wiggling small animal! Where do you obtain research paper information? Is there a free website, like NIH, but for animal research?

 

[Glasshen]

Sorry about the rats. I kinda thought that there would be more. I am finding tunnels in the snow. They are small, one inch diameter tunnels, so I'm thinking mice or voles...I guess I should get some traps too. Perhaps I can reduce the population duri g the snowy season while the girls hang out in the coop. Since it is so sunny I have their door open. The farthest anyone has gone is the step.

I slid on the walkway gently landing on the back of my butt and rolling to my back. Very soft landing, but I was imagining myself in 20 years not faring so well.

Have had some eggs that were cracked from the cold, so I steamed them, and the ones that had intact membranes I made into egg salad, and the one that gushed out Bella enjoyed. The sprouts are really helping the eggs, they were super golden, just like summer. My favorite thing to sprout is guess what! Alfalfa! So glad to be able to finally spell it!