Occupy

[MamaRoo]

Quote:
Yes, like my friend, a 51 year old research scientist who's lost her third job in 3 years because biotech is downsizing. Last time she did tutoring and pet sitting between jobs, but this time no one wants to spend the extra money for things like that. What would suggest she do?

Or my friend in her late 40's who's the sole support of her 67 year old diabetic mother with heart problems, and a daughter in college (on scholarships) who developed severe DVT's after ankle surgery 1 1/2 years ago. Despite being sick from the high doses of anti coagulants she (and others in her department) continue to work overtime because they're terrified they will be "restructured" out of jobs. What would you suggest she do? Dress differently?

Or my friend who lost her job of 30 years when the company owners got divorced. Her husband had to switch jobs ~6 years ago after he had brain surgery and could no longer handle the stress of his position. He went into real estate - no health insurance. My friend has a chronic disease. The COBRA costs them $2000 per month. They have 2 kids in college and support his mother who has mental issues. What did they do wrong?

My friend who had to retire from the police force when his MS made it unsafe to do his job. Niche profession?

Friend's wife with a brain tumor. They're hoping to ignore it until she can retire. Suggestions?

It's not just those who didn't prepare well.

 

[Rusty Hills Farm]

Interesting. So it's somewhat against "big business" and banks? But it's for loaning money and providing of jobs? I'm slow on the uptake, but I thought the two went hand in hand.

It's protesting that banks are sitting on trillions INSTEAD of loaning it. It's protesting that jobs are LEAVING the country instead of being offered here. What is a person supposed to do when he lives in a small town that has one big employer who closes down and moves overseas, laying off 300 American jobholders in the process. His small town cannot suddenly replace 300 jobs! And the kicker is that the reason the business moved is not because they weren't making a profit. They moved because the tax incentives helped them move AND their stock went up when they did it. So on the one hand the government is paying 300 people unemployment insurance and on the other hand the government is paying the company via tax incentives. THAT IS MESSED UP! It is illogical and is a big part of why people are scrambling for work.

My own aunt is in this position. She finally got another job BUT at entry-level making entry-level wages. So in another 15 years maybe she'll finally be back at the level she was before this all happened. The only problem with that is that she is 60 years old and will now have to work until she is 75 just to get back to where she was. This is right? This is fair? She didn't do anything wrong to cause her to lose her job. She was a good employee with fantastic job reviews and what did it get her?!?

This is why I am so supportive of the Occupy Movement. They are voicing some legitimate gripes. Like banks who are raising rates across the board for all of us when they are sitting on huge reserves and refusing to make loans. That is pure greed at the detriment of the country, so why aren't all the Tea Party folks out there protesting that too?!? Why aren't they protesting all the jobs being shipped out of the country?!?

We used to care about one another in this country. We used to help the unemployed, not spit in their faces and call them lazy and judge them. People WANT work. They want to feel productive. They want to take care of their families.

JMO


Rusty​

 

[Royd]

I saw a great cartoon with everyone carrying signs, protesting corporate greed, with litttle bubbles pointing out all of the things made by corporations, from the cardboard for the signs, clothes and shades, to iphones and bullhorns. Ironic.

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Only, as far as I know, they aren't protesting the existence of corporations. Rather, those who hold a great deal of political power. So, not the cardboard box company.

 

[chickened]

Unemployment is hovering around 10% nationally or so it is reported. I would ask the 90% or so that manage to find a job how they did it. Relying on protesters to provide jobs is pointless. The CEO does provide jobs yes sometimes to other countries but when a union says he has to pay 30.00 an hour for someone to put an ashtray in a new car on an assembly line I hardly fault them for outsourcing.

The Tea Party is doing something the last election was the fruit of their labor.

I admit there are some people that have a run of bad luck and need a helping hand and they usually get it.

The 1% that is the villain here pay a lot more in taxes than one realizes. One way to avoid those taxes is for investments and those investments do create jobs.

I think part of the reason the wealthy get blamed for everything is they have been supporting the government for so long and now the tap is being turned off and I really think it will force those that want to be self sufficient to work harder and those that expect a handout to cry louder. I am not surprised here by any means or impressed.

 

[Royd]

Quote:
It's protesting that banks are sitting on trillions INSTEAD of loaning it. It's protesting that jobs are LEAVING the country instead of being offered here. What is a person supposed to do when he lives in a small town that has one big employer who closes down and moves overseas, laying off 300 American jobholders in the process. His small town cannot suddenly replace 300 jobs! And the kicker is that the reason the business moved is not because they weren't making a profit. They moved because the tax incentives helped them move AND their stock went up when they did it. So on the one hand the government is paying 300 people unemployment insurance and on the other hand the government is paying the company via tax incentives. THAT IS MESSED UP! It is illogical and is a big part of why people are scrambling for work.

My own aunt is in this position. She finally got another job BUT at entry-level making entry-level wages. So in another 15 years maybe she'll finally be back at the level she was before this all happened. The only problem with that is that she is 60 years old and will now have to work until she is 75 just to get back to where she was. This is right? This is fair? She didn't do anything wrong to cause her to lose her job. She was a good employee with fantastic job reviews and what did it get her?!?

This is why I am so supportive of the Occupy Movement. They are voicing some legitimate gripes. Like banks who are raising rates across the board for all of us when they are sitting on huge reserves and refusing to make loans. That is pure greed at the detriment of the country, so why aren't all the Tea Party folks out there protesting that too?!? Why aren't they protesting all the jobs being shipped out of the country?!?

We used to care about one another in this country. We used to help the unemployed, not spit in their faces and call them lazy and judge them. People WANT work. They want to feel productive. They want to take care of their families.

JMO


Rusty

The Tea Party doesn't want their good name muddied up with the trashy riff raff. They are at opposite ends of the spectrum for common sense, organization and cleanliness.

These people are protesting the wrong entity, in my view. Those banks wouldn't be sitting on trillions, if the govt. hadn't determined that it was a world ending crisis, which needed to be propped up.

On top of that, the govt. creates such onerous regulations, that a simple man, with a few thousand dollars in his pocket, can't legitimately start a business, and make it go. Between licenses, fees, insurance, workman's comp., unemployment insurance, and healthcare , it's little wonder a person who can start a business, stays small.

On top of that, there is the taxpayer's expense of supporting the onerous beauracracy, needed to enforce all of those rules and regulations, which includes the most heavy handed agency of all. The IRS. They sit, just waiting to steal a man's life dream from him, if every i isn't dotted and every t crossed.

The Tea Party is approaching this game, war, battle, whatever you choose to call it, from the proper front. Of course, most of the protesters' meme leans to the liberal line of thought, that government is good and free stuff is even better, so they see the Tea Party as a bunch of old fuddy duddies, who already got their stuff, and don't want to share.

Funny, that they would be protesting banks who saw an opportunity for free stuff and grabbed it.

The protesters are trying to change the results, while ignoring the cause. Sort of like trying fix termite damage with a few coats of paint.

 

[Royd]

Quote:
So, why aren't they at the source of political power? Could it be, because they know that it would give their hero a huge black eye....That's not a racist comment, BTW.

 

[cubalaya]

the difference between these occupiers and the tea party is obvious:
about half a million tea party members met in washington dc and didn't even leave a piece of trash. they were nonviolent and cleaned up behind themselves. they are conservative and want to keep being self reliant and want to keep their freedoms.
in ny city the occupiers are leaving human waste on the street. they have union thugs who advocate violence. there have been arrests and clashes with the police. they are socialistic in their thinking that somebody owes them something.

 

[mom'sfolly]

Occupy is a grass roots activity, and as such has bottom up organization. This means that while the message seems incoherent, it is coming together a consensus builds. I have seen news stations say that the movement is "incoherent", "has no clear message" and then to extrapolate that they "want nothing less than the end of capitalism". Which is silliness in the extreme.

Unfortunately, much of the current recession is directly tied to corporate greed, deregulation and bailout money NOT being returned to the economy. Banks willingly loaned money on mortgages that were interest only and zero down payment, gambling on a market that any rational person could tell was not sustainable. They bundled high risked loans and sold them as highly rated securities. Banks lied to investors, lied to regulators and lied to the public. The same year they got government bailouts they were giving bonuses to the people who got them into this mess. To help matters along the government repealed Glass Steagall, removing the separation of investment banking and commercial banking. Our tax system also favors corporations moving money out of the country and provides many loopholes for corporations. The end result is that many major American companies effectively pay no income tax at all, and that corporate income taxes are at the lowest rate since the 1950s (as a percentage of GDP). Banks are also not loaning money. These means that the money they are sitting on is not being used in the economy.

There are three foreclosed homes on my block. One turns out to have been illegal; the original foreclosure, over a year ago, was done by a bank that didn't actually own the loan. The owners could have challenged the foreclosure and won; but they couldn't afford a lawyer. One foreclosure was on a house that the sellers knew the buyers couldn't afford, but the bank loaned the money to the buyers anyway. If the sellers could tell they couldn't afford it, why couldn't the bank? And in the case of the third; the primary bread winner lost his job, and has a wife with chronic health issues who couldn't work, and a small child. Ten years of equity down the toilet.

My friends who have participated in the Occupy movement include a rabbi with a family and a congregation, a school teacher, a working soccer mom who run the biggest PTA fundraiser at our school, and a modern hippie who is gainfully employed in an organic food farm.

I think the whole movement scares people. Because it is a truly grassroots movement, because it has no clear leadership, and because it is asking for accountability, and a playing field that isn't weighted to the rich.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/business/economy/03rates.html

 

[frostbite]

I agree that there are a lot of hurting people out there, but I think targeting "big business" is misguided.
There is a common assumption that the poor are poor because the rich are rich, and it just isn't so. Most of the problems we've got right now are due to government policy actions that stifle business, and make it too difficult for emplyers to employ.

It's government policy that is shutting down Gibson guitars and forcing them to lay off workers here, so that workers in India are employed instead.

It's government policies that prevent us from developing our own resources and building new refineries.

That resulted in the skyrocketing price of petroleum products the summer of 2008

It was government policies in the Community Reinvestment act that pushed banks to give mortgages to people who couldn't afford them, because the government said everyone should be able to own a home. Some banks were threatened that if they didn't make these loans, they would be picketed and branded as racist, and since the government gave them an easy way to dump the bad loans, by guaranteeing that Fanny and Freddy would buy them, the banks went ahead and gave home loans to people that couldn't afford them. Then when the aforementioned fuel prices went up, it pushed their budgets over the cliff, and the great foreclosure flood ensued.

They interviewed one gal on Wall Street that said if one of those companies offered her a 100 thou a year job, she wouldn't take it! Self righteousness won't pay her bills. These folks probably mean well, and they're identifying legitimate problems, but they're misidentifying the causes and effects.

It's sad that the idea that "it's all the rich people's fault" is gaining so much steam. Most of the rich people pay most of the freight in this country. And most of them got rich because of hard honest work. Like Steve Jobs. Like Herman Cain. Like lots of unfamous people who pay lots of taxes and give lots to charity and raise their kids to be honest hard working people too. The bad apples get all the press though. Like Buffett, who claims in error that his secretary pays more taxes than he does, only because HE structures it that way. He is his corporation, and his corporation pays lots of taxes! But he doesn't pay income tax because he doesn't pay himself a salary. Who is he trying to fool? And like the head of GE, who cut that company's stock value in half, GE, which paid no taxes last year, and which is shipping many jobs overseas to China and other places, yet the CEO is an important advisor to our current president.

We still have crony capitalism. If we could get rid of the ability of our elected officials to reward cronies by their policies, and could get back to simple capitalism, we could all do better.

Hmm. Sounds like a rant! Sorry about that, but not really....