OMG. I could KICK my FIL.

[punk-a-doodle]

It's both. You need to find a way to remove FIL from the equation in a manner that does not shatter his self esteem. Tell him the equipment needs to be worked on (it DOES), and that y'all will have to take a break. Send him to one of the older sons to visit while the machine is being repaired. Make sure to both repair it and finish the job while he is gone. Find valuable work that NEEDS to be done and ask him to be responsible. Also, ask him to consider how it will affect his wife if he has another stroke or heart attack and dies. He needs to comprehend how his actions affect those he loves.

Aye, I said that it is 'not so much an issue of age' though, because while it does factor in, it by no means sounds like the root of this issue. Since OCPD is a good example of a controlling personality (to the point of being categorized as a personality disorder), and since I have way more personal experience with that then I'd like, I will use that as an example. Yes, it may worsen as a person ages, and may include instigating factors such as a need to prove to oneself that they are still capable of doing things. But, the larger part is the pattern of control that has been deeply ingrained and has had mental and emotional blockades placed up to protect the sense of 'rightness'. In this case too, judging from the OP's remarks, the FIL has been verbally abusing people for his entire life, as well as using manipulative means (ie. storming out in the woods) to control others. No ammount of respecting his age will help with the control issues, and very well may worsen them. Doing things like helping him

comprehend how his actions affect those he loves

might, but it depends exactly what one is dealing with on the personality spectrum. That is why I say control is at the root of this one. If these sorts of behaviors had only emerged with the FIL's age and/or a sickness or recent handicap, then that would be a different issue.​

 

[zzGypsy]

tough situation, sorry you're so tangled up in the family dynamics.

just a couple of thoughts... hope you'll find some of this useful. it's tough news, but you're in a tough situation. maybe this will help.

- your FIL won't change. his health and vigor may desert him, but he's not going to get a new personality.

- your MIL won't change. she's lived her entire life this way and she's unlikely to grow a spine, become bold and independant, or be willing to stand up to him more than she currently does.

- your ILs have worked out a deal as far as their releationship goes - it's not a great way to live, b ut it's their way and it won't likely change (that was my ILs too.)

- your hubby needs to grow a pair and stand up to his parents, at least where it regards your land, your equipment, your harvest. you both know this, but it's not easy... he's been groomed for his whole life to cater to his overbearing father and protect his weak and manipulative mother. nonetheless, he's a grown man, and he needs to behave like one to take proper care of his own family, not his parents.

- your hubby is really really going to need your support while he does that. he's going to be your hero in doing this, and treating him like that will help innoculate him against the cost of learning to stand up to his impossible father and his weak mother.

- if you two can really get together on this as a team, it can be controlled and turrned around. he's got to do the heavy lifting of dealing with his dad, but if you can be there to cheer his successes, strategize together on what to do and how to handle the issues, lower his stress when he's maxed out, and if you can be his safe harbor when he's coming home wounded from battle, you CAN do this together.

- he's going to have to acceept that his mother made her deal with his dad, and she's an adult, and he cannot protect her at the expense of his own family. maybe she could come stay with you. or maybe you could arrange to have her over for dinner or out for coffee instead of being at home when you know your hubby and his dad are going to have a bad day. at least get her out of the worst of the storm. if you can't, well, your hubby still needs to protect his family not his parents. and he's going to be crabby and need extra support from you on days when that's particularly evident.

- you may have to make some choices - or at least be prepared to make them - if there's a showdown... like not farming your father's land. farm your own, lease other land from someone else if you have to. (I know, easier said than done.) don't work *his* land if he doesn't meet *your* standards for behavior (like not destroying your equipment, or taking keys to equipment that he doesn't own.) he may be so stubborn he makes you go there. or it may bring him to negotiate his behavior.

- do not be doormats any more. I know your FIL wants what he wants, but he is not entitled to extract it at the cost of his children's and grandchildren's future. if he wants to work, and he cannot be brought to play nice, then let him work his own land, without your equipment. and have your MIL over for tea and cookies a LOT.

I know a lot of this sounds harsh - however you and your DH have a right and an obligation to protect your family and your future, even if it's from his parents. and your hubby is going to need your love and support in spades.

growing a spine is hard work - ultimately it will be worth it. I know, I had to grow one too, against the backdrop of a family that had raised me not to have one.

if you two can find a "nice" way to stand up to your FIL that gets it done and doesn't upset him, great, but my guess is he's way, way past respecting or responding to "nice". if nice, or reasonable, or rational were going to work, they'd have worked by now. you're going to have to go with firm. resolute. non-yielding to manipulation or bullying. unequivocal. you don't have to be mean, just practical and solid, remember where your future is, be responsible to that. not to your FIL's manipulation or your MIL's weakness.

a

for your ILs, a big

for you, and a full-on cheering section for your man and you if you need it.

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Absolutely excellent post Gypsy!

 

[gale65]

Quote:
Thank you for that-very helpful (only my MIL isn't manipulative in the least-in fact she's extremely meek and the biggest doormat I've ever encountered).

 

[zzGypsy]

Quote:
glad that's helpful. if I can be of service in detailed strategy, you just let me know. been there, done some of that, learned a couple of things that work, and some that don't.

re your MIL: beware the totalitarian power of the victim...
they have as much power to make us walk on eggshells as the ogres do... and on top of that they have the power to make us feel guilty about our reactions to them... resentment, resistance, irritation all are legitimate reactions to having to contort our lives to serve their needs and protect them from the world, but then we feel bad for reacting that way.

at least when we are angry about being abused by an ogre, we can wear that anger without shame.

everyone finds a way to make their world work as best they can. some do it by bullying and being cantancerous. some do it by being weak, fragile and needy.

both are manpulative in thier own unique and special ways ... the difference is that in our society we are used to pointing at bullies and saying "bad and wicked behavior" whereas with victims, we're taught to say "oh poor thing, here let me fix that for you".

there is a difference between being a true victim - say someone held at gunpoint and abused - and being a participant in your own victimization - say marrying someone who is abusive and overbearing and then staying with them for 50 years, even while they abuse your children.

granted there are ways the "weaker" person gets worn down and stockholm syndrom can apply, however more often than not, I think it is simply a different way of exerting power. it is a negotiated deal between the partners, not a very healthy one, but both players stay by choice. he bullies, she cries. he applies anger, she applies guilt. both can be used to form the behavior of others to their desires.

people who are too fragle to cope with normal things have a way of getting everyone else to cater to what they "need", to protect them, to wrap them in cotton wool lest they get broken. people who are weak learn to use their weakness just like people who are strong learn to use their strength.

it's not unusual for weak people to have the power to do things like get your husband, a grown man, to yield to his overbearing father to the detriment of his own family, because if your DH doesn't, his weak mother will have to deal with an unhappy husband.

in that way, subversive as it seems, your MIL is complicit in your FIL's behavior towards your husband.

it can be hard to see it that way because we are SO trained to pity and save the victims in our society... however our contemporary society likes to overlooks the fact that while some victims are really abused against their will, many many others are participants in their own demise. My husband, brilliant and talented man that he is, has never been able to see that his mother chose to stay with his overbearing and unfaithful father. he has never been able to acknowledge that his mom repeatedly brought his dad to heel with her fragility and that she wielded her weakness and his resulting guilt with skill. when his dad died, he thought she would finally be free and get to live the life his father prevented her from having. he has never understood why after his father's death she withered away to nothing because she missed her abusive philandering husband so. sometimes from the inside these things are difficult to see.

It may seem cold to say your MIL is weak, at least in part, by choice. it may seem kinder to say she has no choice. but then it's just as true to say your FIL has no choice either... he is what he is, just as she is what she is. either they're both victims of their genetics and their experiences, or they both have choice in how they behave.

of course, she is as unlikely to change as your FIL is, so you have to deal with them the way they are. and that's not made easier by the fact that we've been, as a society in general, trained to cater to the weak and see only the abuser as the problem.

FWIW, I'll tell you why I see things the way I do. while my circumstances differ in the details from yours, my mother is not so different from your MIL. it took a *very* long time for me to learn to not feel guilty when I didn't leap over backwards to protect her from what she should have managed for herself. acting to protect myself, or my family, in legitimate ways was unacceptable if it somehow led to circumstances which caused her distress. even if those circumstances were of her own making and required her participation. great amounts of guilt ensued... or if I failed to generate that guilt on my own, it was delivered with quiet and pitiful depression, tears and accusations of not caring what happened to her as a result of my selfish actions, or occasionally oblique mentions of suicide.

trust me, the quiet and pitiful depression, the long-suffering meekness with which she seemed to exist despite her fragility in an abusive world is FAR the most effective. it certainly made me feel the biggest jerk for having failed to distort my life to protect hers. it was far more likely to get me to behave in required ways than my father's silent withdrawl or explosive rage.

in truth, both my parents were broken, neither had a fair deal growing up, and to this day they carry damage that makes them less than ideal in relationships. however thier wounds, and their use of opposite but compatible manipulation created an environment where I grew up without a backbone and learned to keep my head down and respond and cater to the competing manipulations to survive. not a very fun or healthy way to grow up.

took a lot of work and pain to grow a backbone as an adult... but it was that or live in the disfunction my parents taught me how to create. I figured either way, I was in for pain, so that being the case, I might as well get some vertibrae out of it.

anyway, that's why I think your meek and gentle MIL has power to extract behavior from your DH that dovetails nicely with what your FIL expects of him.

in any case, your support and love is the counterbalance to his family's disfunction, and just know that together as a team you can make this work.

oh, and sometimes a little outside leverage and insight in the form of counseling can provide some game changing observations and tools as well.