On the mend, but still questions: UPDATE, 20 week old banty wormy as heck,

[casportpony]

You might consider tube feeding her if she is not putting on weight too.

X2!

-Kathy

 

[lalaland]

lala... what brand of probiotics do you use? My nutri-balancer mineral mix has probiotics in it so I haven't purchased any separately. But I plan on getting some. Just wondering what brand you've used.

I don't know the brand, I was traveling in the south and stopping at feed mills (always like to check them out) and got some. They were in a package, and I put them in a jar, and didn't save the label. I top dress the feed now and then with them.

You might consider tube feeding her if she is not putting on weight too.

Awww, Delisha, don't say that! (totally whining now, and I have no patience for whining, either). I did look into tube feeding. there are some difficulties with this. first off, I live alone and there are no helping hands that could be here on a regular basis especially with my work schedule. second, I am totally intimidated by the process combined with her tiny size. I'll give her a week and reevaluate it. On my today list is to weigh her for the first time, so I can track whether she is putting on weight.

I am also considering some kind of other set up than the kennel. maybe removing most of the hay and using news paper, to encourage her to move more. keep a pile in the corner for her to nest on. or maybe making a barricade under the dining room table, it would give her more room and more light, with the kennel it is dim and I have a lamp on the floor so light shines in, but it illuminates only half the kennel. that has been fine as she has been so ill, but she needs more activity now. As I am writing this, I can hear her pecking in the hay because I tossed some groats in it. I took away the groats in a dish because I want her to start eating the chicken feed.

 

[Leahs Mom]

What's the current situation?

 

[lalaland]

well, getting home after dark and trying to get her to eat more isn't working so hot, and neither is waking her up at 3:30 and trying to get her to eat.

I weighed her, she weights 1.27 lbs. Last night her crop was mostly empty. But, this morning she did two good sized ok droppings except for the green color.

She continues to refuse to eat: liver, egg, cottage cheese, yogurt, bread soaked in milk or vitamins, apple, carrot, raisins, crumble, mash wet or dry, cracked corn, peas, cheese, mashed egg yolk, kale, spinach, banana, grits cooked or raw, cat food wet or dry .

Does eat: oat groats and clover leaves. will occasionally eat a few crumbles, a curd - a single curd of cottage cheese, and a dangly piece of liver hanging from a toothpick and being wiggled in front of her. second piece is refused.

I leave in the kennel a ramekin of mixed stuff: groats, vitamin drops, crumbles, boss, dried clover, cottage cheese curds rubbed with dry mash, mash mixed into a crumbly consistency with beef drippings - maybe 1/3 of a cup. A separate dish has some crumble and groats, and I toss groats in the kennel in the hay. If I left this in front of another hen, it would be gone!

She has been on duramycin for 7 days, dosage rates are for 7-14 days, so I took her off that this morning and popped her back on Corid. I'll keep her on that for a while - she only had it for one day.

I am considering trying to get my daughter to take her for a week, she works from home and could more easily tempt her multiple times a day to eat. If she is laying in the kennel, and I pick her up and bring her out, she will almost always eat if I have sprinkled groats on the paper. If she sees them falling, something triggers for her and she wants to eat them. I also have been tossing them into the kennel and she does a bit of digging for them.

I can see if I could do a couple of days of tube feeding that perhaps that would turn her around? When I have tried to force her to eat cottage cheese curds by opening her beak and smushing a bit of one in, or using a syringe to give her a bit of liquid cottage cheese, she makes these pathetic chirps, struggles wildly, and then collapses, eyes closed. too weak.

I am discouraged this morning but am reminding myself that she is at her worst when it is dark outside. I am going to dig a a little bit of sod for her tomorrow because she really wanted to eat dirt a few days ago.

 

[Eggcessive]

I wish I lived close--I would take care of her for you for awhile. I would use caution with the meat. Make sure it is very finely chopped or pureed, and cooked because I have read where a large piece of meat can get stuck in the crop and rot, causing a clostridium perfringens infection, which causes necrotizing enteritis. That causes extreme weakness, diarrhea, and loss of appetite. It is thought that feeding a diet high in wheat, rye, and barley can increase the chance of disease. Also a mild case of coccidiosis can add to it. Nambroth on BYC has written of her chicken with it. Another woman recently had a sick bird from it, and treated with amoxicillin. Here is a link about it: http://www.veterinaryresearch.org/content/43/1/74

 

[Leahs Mom]

An "animal protein" note with "food for thought":

It should be noted, that the study quoted above tested what they referred to as "large amounts of animal protein - (fish meal)". (Which appears to be the only "animal protein" source that was tested in this study. Fish meal can have all kinds of issues of toxicity and a lot of controversy on issues such as heavy metal content (just to mention one issue).


So they are talking about one type of animal protein, fed to excess, from a "questionable" animal source when it regards "purity" of product ---rather than animal source protein, fed in balance, from a variety of sources.

Other animal proteins, including bugs, mice, snakes, frogs (which they will catch themselves) or other sources given by the "husbandman" (beef, venison, butcher scraps, etc.) don't seem to be mentioned in this article. And in every case the mention of the animal protein was from a fish source and fed in excess described as "large amounts".

I think it's safe to say that the birds wouldn't be cooking any of the animal protein that they find on their own. And I also think that its safe to say that IN BALANCE with the whole diet, raw animal-based protein would add to overall health rather than deter from it.



As always, my .02 for your consideration

 

[Eggcessive]

I used this one study to tell about the illness, not to show what feeds were done. There are many other links about c. perfringens, which is also known as gas gangrene when it affects tissues. It is basically putrification of tissues in dying bodies. I just don't think that people are aware of it. The thread on BYC that I referred to about feeding chunks of meat is this one: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...r-posts-on-byc-a-public-thank-you-to-nambroth
This is Nambroth's thread about her chicken with c. perfringens: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/613918/undigested-food-in-droppings-update-on-page-3/40

 

[Leahs Mom]

Got it. Took a quick look-through. Sounds like they were thinking a botulism-type organism which proliferates anaerobically. Interesting read and glad they caught it!

 

[Mtn Laurel]

I'm so sorry she's not eating for you. I will say that my girls appetite was the first thing to return, even when her poo was still greenish. She wasn't nearly as sick as your girl, though.

I hope things turn around for you as I'm sure this is terribly frustrating as well as stressful.

 

[casportpony]

I must sound like a broken record by now, but if she's not eating, she need to be tube fed.

• https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...cken-and-give-subcutaneous-fluid#post_9910754
• https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...-for-visuals-very-detailed-post#post_11652991

-Kathy