Online standard of perfection.
- Thread starter houndit
- Start date
Someone was kind enough to send me a breed description in a PM. There was a bit more detail than I expected. I think that a summary of the basics could be produced without any copyright infringement.
For example, the comb description in the breed description I was sent:
For example, the comb description in the breed description I was sent:
COMB: Single; of medium size, set firmly on head, perfectly straight and upright; with five well-defined points; those at front and rear smaller than those in the middle; fine in texture; blade closely following shape of head.
If this was summarized as
If this was summarized as
COMB: single, medium size, upright with five points.
That information would be useful to general chicken fanciers and I don't think the APA could complain. These are facts to which the APA can not claim ownership. And, someone who was serious about breeding and showing would still need to get their hands on the APA publication.
As I said before: I am not an attorney.
That information would be useful to general chicken fanciers and I don't think the APA could complain. These are facts to which the APA can not claim ownership. And, someone who was serious about breeding and showing would still need to get their hands on the APA publication.
As I said before: I am not an attorney.
- Jan 14, 2008
- 5,644
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Elements of the breed descriptions are not "facts" of which the APA can not claim ownership they are part of a Standard breed description developed & adopted by the APA. If they were objective facts there would be no need for a Standard as all examples of the breed would posess those traits.
If it were not for the APA & ABA there would be no poultry shows & many of the breeds of poultry would have never been developed. In fact w/o these organizations to establish breed standards it's arguable that there would be no true breeds at all. Everyone would be free to develop & name their own breeds.
A large part of the work these organizations do is funded by sales of their various products including copies of their Standard publications. If you are interested in showing &/or breed preservation why are you so anxious to rip off the very organizations that make these activities possible?
The APA sells a black & white copy of the Standard for $14 including the cost of shipping. If you can't afford that you can't afford the cost of entry fees & gas to drive to a show anyway.
If it were not for the APA & ABA there would be no poultry shows & many of the breeds of poultry would have never been developed. In fact w/o these organizations to establish breed standards it's arguable that there would be no true breeds at all. Everyone would be free to develop & name their own breeds.
A large part of the work these organizations do is funded by sales of their various products including copies of their Standard publications. If you are interested in showing &/or breed preservation why are you so anxious to rip off the very organizations that make these activities possible?
The APA sells a black & white copy of the Standard for $14 including the cost of shipping. If you can't afford that you can't afford the cost of entry fees & gas to drive to a show anyway.
Quote:
If this is directed at me, I think you should go back and reread what I last wrote: "someone who was serious about breeding and showing would still need to get their hands on the APA publication". I'm not suggesting replacing the APA publication with a free online copy.
If this is directed at me, I think you should go back and reread what I last wrote: "someone who was serious about breeding and showing would still need to get their hands on the APA publication". I'm not suggesting replacing the APA publication with a free online copy.
Quote:
If this is directed at me, I think you should go back and reread what I last wrote: "someone who was serious about breeding and showing would still need to get their hands on the APA publication". I'm not suggesting replacing the APA publication with a free online copy.
Maybe you weren't but there are a lot of people on this and other forums that think that the SOP should be free on the Internet.
I just recently had a little discussion with someone on this forum who promotes himself as a serious breeder and exhibitor. Yet he refuses to even consider buying a SOP, he wants to get it free online.
For those like NYRED and me who have been around long enough to see the ups and downs of the APA and ABA and its somewhat decline in the last 30 years. It is frustrating for us to see people wanting something for nothing when there was a lot of hard work and personal money put into these Standards.
The Standards are the flagships of these organizations and they are available in a wide range of prices for everyone. You do not have to own one but please do not expect one for free.
Bob
If this is directed at me, I think you should go back and reread what I last wrote: "someone who was serious about breeding and showing would still need to get their hands on the APA publication". I'm not suggesting replacing the APA publication with a free online copy.
Maybe you weren't but there are a lot of people on this and other forums that think that the SOP should be free on the Internet.
I just recently had a little discussion with someone on this forum who promotes himself as a serious breeder and exhibitor. Yet he refuses to even consider buying a SOP, he wants to get it free online.
For those like NYRED and me who have been around long enough to see the ups and downs of the APA and ABA and its somewhat decline in the last 30 years. It is frustrating for us to see people wanting something for nothing when there was a lot of hard work and personal money put into these Standards.
The Standards are the flagships of these organizations and they are available in a wide range of prices for everyone. You do not have to own one but please do not expect one for free.
Bob
- Jan 14, 2008
- 5,644
- 494
- 303
Quote:
If this is directed at me, I think you should go back and reread what I last wrote: "someone who was serious about breeding and showing would still need to get their hands on the APA publication". I'm not suggesting replacing the APA publication with a free online copy.
Maybe you weren't but there are a lot of people on this and other forums that think that the SOP should be free on the Internet.
I just recently had a little discussion with someone on this forum who promotes himself as a serious breeder and exhibitor. Yet he refuses to even consider buying a SOP, he wants to get it free online.
For those like NYRED and me who have been around long enough to see the ups and downs of the APA and ABA and its somewhat decline in the last 30 years. It is frustrating for us to see people wanting something for nothing when there was a lot of hard work and personal money put into these Standards.
The Standards are the flagships of these organizations and they are available in a wide range of prices for everyone. You do not have to own one but please do not expect one for free.
Bob
AMEN!
If this is directed at me, I think you should go back and reread what I last wrote: "someone who was serious about breeding and showing would still need to get their hands on the APA publication". I'm not suggesting replacing the APA publication with a free online copy.
Maybe you weren't but there are a lot of people on this and other forums that think that the SOP should be free on the Internet.
I just recently had a little discussion with someone on this forum who promotes himself as a serious breeder and exhibitor. Yet he refuses to even consider buying a SOP, he wants to get it free online.
For those like NYRED and me who have been around long enough to see the ups and downs of the APA and ABA and its somewhat decline in the last 30 years. It is frustrating for us to see people wanting something for nothing when there was a lot of hard work and personal money put into these Standards.
The Standards are the flagships of these organizations and they are available in a wide range of prices for everyone. You do not have to own one but please do not expect one for free.
Bob
AMEN!
- Apr 20, 2007
- 669
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Agreed. A lot of hard work and dedication to the poultry fancy as a whole goes into the making of the Standard of Perfection. The attitude of entitlement that makes people demand something for nothing does not help organizations on the whole become better in the long run.
Do the artists who create the images that go into the Standard of Perfection not deserve to be paid for their work? I know one of the artists personally and they work hard to make ends meet. What about printing costs? The books don't appear out of thin air. Even if the descriptions were online it would cost money to set up and administer the website, and get the illustrations created. I suspect that the APA doesn't make a huge amount of profit on selling the book and only does what it needs to do to cover costs of the book itself and help run the organization. I certainly haven't heard of any golden parachutes, or absurd bonuses paid to any APA members.
The cost to purchase the books is extremely reasonable and $14 for the quality of the book you get in the Black and White version is so cheap it's a joke.
UC
Do the artists who create the images that go into the Standard of Perfection not deserve to be paid for their work? I know one of the artists personally and they work hard to make ends meet. What about printing costs? The books don't appear out of thin air. Even if the descriptions were online it would cost money to set up and administer the website, and get the illustrations created. I suspect that the APA doesn't make a huge amount of profit on selling the book and only does what it needs to do to cover costs of the book itself and help run the organization. I certainly haven't heard of any golden parachutes, or absurd bonuses paid to any APA members.
The cost to purchase the books is extremely reasonable and $14 for the quality of the book you get in the Black and White version is so cheap it's a joke.
UC
Just to be a devil's advocate--for someone just getting into showing, it can be hard to get your hands on a copy of the book. They aren't carried in bookstores and many folks, despite this being the computer age do not shop on line. I wish more poultry clubs carried copies (some do), and I wish they were available to purchase at all sanctioned shows. Heck, even have a block on entry forms to purchase the books--just like there often is for banquet tickets.
If you are just starting, and aren't sure how serious you plan to be, I can see it being a relatively unimportant purchase, especially since they aren't readily available. I would love to see them marketed at feed stores and shows and Borders and Barnes & Noble and even Amazon. Personally I would pay a bit more for the conveniance of perusing it at my local bookstore and purchasing it right then and there (getting them to stock it, however might be a bit more dificult, lol).
If you are just starting, and aren't sure how serious you plan to be, I can see it being a relatively unimportant purchase, especially since they aren't readily available. I would love to see them marketed at feed stores and shows and Borders and Barnes & Noble and even Amazon. Personally I would pay a bit more for the conveniance of perusing it at my local bookstore and purchasing it right then and there (getting them to stock it, however might be a bit more dificult, lol).
Another possibility would be a subscription to an online version or a copy protected pdf version.
perhaps you could borrow someone else's?
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