Opened a Can of Worms I didn't want to!!! I need some horse advice.

[babyblue]

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How does that happen? You bought the horse, but they still own her? And how can there be an *if* she finds out we have her? I am confused..... sounds like a mess, but if you paid for her she is your horse. Hope you have a paper trail and best of luck!

I'm guessing original owners sold her, didn't get paid the full amount, the first and second buyers then turned around and sold the horse with out the original owner/breeder getting paid.

 

[Rusty Hills Farm]

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x10


Pat

Just because someone sold this mare to you does not automatically mean that the horse is legally yours. If you want to read a horror story, look up RodriguezPoultry's posts on what it took her to get her gelding back after he had been illegally sold. She leased him to someone and that person turned around and sold him. It took her over a year of legal infighting to get him back, but the courts awarded him to her over the person who "bought" him. They also awarded her some cash as well if I am recalling this correctly.

Rusty

 

[lockedhearts]

The person that will be in real hot water here is the person who sold her to you. It depends on how they acquired this horse. Did they legally purchase her, make payments and not finish paying for her? That is the question. Possession is still a factor, you have the horse, have had the horse. Also, if you have invested money in training, lessons etc, that is another part of it.

First, get your ducks in a row. Write out a timeline of how you acquired this horse. If you paid cash, with no bill of sale, I am hoping at least someone, anyone witnessed this transaction. I assume you have her registration information? Contact the Registry, explain everything to them. They can't make legal decisions, but get to them first, document this and send them a certified letter with return receipt.

Second, contact the seller, if they do not have knowledge of what has transpired, play "dumb" with them, tell them your accountant would like a Bill Of Sale, for his records.

Third, get an attorney that deals in contract law, it would be helpful if they knew horses, but many do not.

Personally, I think you have a good case here.

In the future, NEVER , buy or sell anything of value without a contract! Even if it is to Family or Good Friends, trust me, I have learned the hard way.

Also you can check netposse.com, if you have a time frame the horse was acquired by the seller, just to make sure it was not listed on there by the original owner as stolen.

 

[Luna9]

Possession is 9/10 of the law, however being that the old owners have possession of a legal document stating they own the horse unless you have a bill of sale you are SOL unfortunately. Its something that could get really ugly.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

Talk about resurrection eh?

So...let me get this straight. You purchased the horse from a person who claimed they had purchased the horse from the original owner. Do you have ANY documentation from the original owner?

If not? You're probably out of luck. The person who "purchased" my horse from the man that was leasing it from me was arrested as well as his son because both were hiding the horse. The man who leased it is on the run from the law...AGAIN. Disappeared from the area.

If this person takes you to court, you will not be able to win, especially if they pursue it as a criminal case of embezzlement thanks to the middleman not keeping up his terms of the original contract because of payment. Now, if the original contract had a clause that stated the original owner was to be contacted upon possible sale of the horse, they may be SOL.

It all depends upon the middleman in this. How did he get this horse and WHAT were the terms of both the sale between you and the middleman and the terms of the sale between the middleman and the person with the papers? Either way, get everything you can in writing to keep it fresh in your head because you could definitely be on your way to court. Generally speaking, when a person does not have the papers of the horse they purchased, nothing good has happened.

This sounds really harsh and I really don't mean it to, but I feel for both your side and for the person with the papers. The person who has done wrong is the middleman. Please do not hide this horse from the owner...you have no idea what that person has gone through. It could be the middleman stole the horse and the owner has been worried sick.

 

[Anguissette]

Celtic, I have no advice. I just wanted to say I really empathize with you. I'm sure you are all torn up in knots worrying about your horse. I hope this has a good ending.

 

[welsummerchicks]

I think he said he doesn't own the PAPERS - not that he doesn't legally own the horse.

Horses are often sold without papers at a lower price.

But horses are often sold without papers BECAUSE the current owner didn't legally buy the horse. If the horse is something you would not want to have to return to a previous owner, it's not at all a bad idea to backtrack and call previous owners and be sure the horse was legally transferred.

Insisting on getting the papers is one way to assure that the horse was indeed, legally transferred to the current seller.

Whether the seller who sold to you, really DID buy the horse legally, remains to be seen. Not good to make any assumptions about them just yet.

'The breeder wants her back' doesn't mean they have any legal ability to do so.

Need an awful lot more facts yet.

WHere's your bill of sale, Celtic? Was it just a handshake deal?

'Many horses are stolen every year. Buyers have the additional burden of making sure they buy the horse legally. Every sale after an illegal transfer is legally, not a legitimate sale

 

[Peaches Lee]

Just wishing you good luck with this situation. Hope everything works out for the best.

 

[michickenwrangler]

I would consult an attorney, and the situation could go either way. I've seen both happen.

I gave my goats away last year about this time, a few days later they appeared on CL. Because I still had the papers I threatened to take them back, the woman said, "Nuh-uh, you GAVE them to me." When I contacted her a few days later, she had sold them by then and didn't tell me who she sold them too. I haven't seen them on CL since so I'm assuming they have gone to a decent home.

 

[Britney]

I think that animals are considered property in the USA. Cat's are treated differently. Did you take the horse to the vet? Can you pull up old phone records? If horses are considered property in the USA and the horse was never reported stolen I would assume that you have legs to stand on. In most states possession is 9\\10's of the law. Unless that law changed. Hopefully someone here can come in with the real answers for live stock.