Opinions Needed - Bumblefoot Surgery?

[BaltimoreWoolCo]

Hi, everyone! Thank you all for your well wishes.

So, the vet took a look at my roo a little while ago. He said it doesn't look like the usual bumblefoot. He used forceps and iodine soaked gauze and really cleaned out the abcess hole. He said the hole was quite large and was filled with lots of stringy bits but no real core and definitely not the hard kernel you find in simple bumblefoot. There is a danger that the infection could have spread to the bone, though Kasper looks very healthy and is otherwise happy. The vet didn't want to risk any cutting or opening things up further in the foot. He wants me to continue to give it a daily soak, but not with epsom salts. Just warm water with some iodine added, then bandaging with the same gauze and vet wrap I've been using. We're also putting him back on baytril for another 2 weeks. I'll check back in with him next week and he'll see how things look in the foot. Fingers crossed!!

 

[BaltimoreWoolCo]

A quick update on my roo - I didn't like the look of his foot after a week on the Baytril, and my farm vet couldn't get out to take a look at it any time soon. So, we discovered that the vet my partner used to use for his guinea pigs also does birds, including farm fowl. So off to his vet we went. Long story short, the x-rays showed no visible infection in the bone -- thank goodness!! -- and he'll be going back for bumblefoot surgery on Tuesday. In the meantime, this vet has me flushing the abcess with sterile saline fluid 2x per day, soaking it in warm epsom salt bath to help reduce swelling, and applying a sugar/honey poultice 2x per day. I was surprised that the swelling has visibly reduced after 24 hours of this treatment. Fingers crossed!

 

[tripletfeb]

Thanks for the update! Hopefully he continues to get better!

 

[Wyorp Rock]

A quick update on my roo - I didn't like the look of his foot after a week on the Baytril, and my farm vet couldn't get out to take a look at it any time soon. So, we discovered that the vet my partner used to use for his guinea pigs also does birds, including farm fowl. So off to his vet we went. Long story short, the x-rays showed no visible infection in the bone -- thank goodness!! -- and he'll be going back for bumblefoot surgery on Tuesday. In the meantime, this vet has me flushing the abcess with sterile saline fluid 2x per day, soaking it in warm epsom salt bath to help reduce swelling, and applying a sugar/honey poultice 2x per day. I was surprised that the swelling has visibly reduced after 24 hours of this treatment. Fingers crossed!
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Glad you were able to find a vet that can take care of that!
Thank you for the update, please keep us posted.

 

[coach723]

Glad you were able to find someone to help! Hope he recovers completely, will be watching your progress. Honey and sugar packs or compresses can often be very effective, so glad to see they were recommended.
@Kathy Golla , would you be willing to share your dose and length of treatment for SMZ-TMP? I had no response to Baytril, so have started mine on SMZ-TMP and have seen improvement already, so curious what your vet recommended for long duration treatment. I'm assuming I'm dealing with MRSA at this point (don't have a vet to help), and the SMP-TMZ is the first thing that it has had any response to. I may be too little-too late, but am going to give it a shot and see.

 

[Kathy Golla]

Hi Coach723,
Thanks for asking.
My hen has the chronic footpad dermatitis.
https://www.farmhealthonline.com/US/disease-management/poultry-diseases/footpad-dermatitis/
So my situation is a little different. But here's my share:
Hen was on SMZ-TMP for 8 weeks. The only reason we stopped was she had reached her tolerance level with it in administering it, she was starting to molt, the hen's appetite was way down because the antibiotics were bugging her stomach. You'll kind of know. Big BO hen, 6.6 pounds.

SMZ-TMP 480 mg tablets. 1/4 tablet twice a day. I've had a lighter hen on 1/4 tab 2xs day too, so I think thats the minimum dosage. Its a bitter taste so if you have a hen/rooster that you can crush it up and put it in like peanut butter that makes it easy. My BO hen would absolutely not take it like that, and I dont like administering pills orally, so I crushed the 1/4 pill up and put it in about .5mls of apple juice and administered it orally.

On another note, unsolicited, I have had really good luck with Baytril Otic as a topical treatment. I know it wont get deep into the foot and solve the infection problem, but it works on healing up scabs faster. Its made it that in most situations I dont have to wrap the foot after a certain point, although with winter coming havent gotten over that hump yet. You just put it on topically, store it in the refrig and a little goes a long way. You dont have to wipe it off like you would the silvadene cream before you put another coat on.

Also, Ive had good luck with the Birdy Bootie.
https://www.amazon.com/Birdy-Bootie...locphy=200807&hvtargid=pla-353876664659&psc=1
When a hen gets a flare up, or I dont feel like wrapping, these have given the hen and I a break from wrapping with vetrap, and it doesnt cause the soreness between the toes. Again, not sure what Im going to do over the winter..but. When they are on Amazon, it means they have some pre-made, so if you are thinking about these at all, order them from Amazon while you can. Otherwise they have to be custom made from Birdy Bootie and can take about a month to arrive. I have one hen that will tolerate it and another hen who tried to kill herself getting the boot off, so it depends on the hen/rooster. If you put one on be sure to watch the bird's reaction carefully. I take the boot off about every three days to give the foot a break. I also cut off part of the toes to make the boot more comfortable since Im dealing with the footpad.

 

[coach723]

Thank you for the detailed response! My roo would probably tolerate the booties well, if I can get him to the point where they actually look like they will try to heal I will probably go with them at that point. He's pretty tolerant overall. My hen, who's foot is not nearly so severe, I'm quite sure would freak out and lay on her back and throw a theatrical fit and have them off in half a second. I have to wrap her up halfway to her hock to keep anything on.
I will have to see if I can find the Baytril Otic (am vet shopping now, so hopefully the new one will be a bit more open), it would be good to have on hand.
Thank you for the info on dosing, he's currently on 100mg/kg twice a day (his foot was REALLY bad), and I will do that for 10 days ( unless he takes a turn for the worse) and reassess then. He's tolerating it very well so far and swelling is much reduced. But I will need to reduce the dose beyond that I think if he's not much better at the end of 10 days, but there has been a marked improvement so far, so fingers crossed. I'm currently giving it in a mashed up bit of hotdog with honey, and he takes it OK. May have to syringe him as he feels better and gets a bit more feisty.
Thanks again!

 

[Aunt Angus]

Fantastic thread! I have learned so much from it, and I've gained even more respect for this site. It's insane the amount of info everyone has acquired. Never been part of anything like this. I am amazed utterly.

 

[Kathy Golla]

Hi Neighbor!
That's super nice to say. There are educators on this board with an incredible amount of knowledge and experience. We novices aspire to give back and pay it forward like them someday. Every day they are at it, answering folks in crisis, educating people 24/7.
I thought chicken raising would be easy, boy was I wrong. I'm not joking when I say I have neighbors who bought 4 hens from the feed store 6 years ago that are all alive today. They've NEVER checked their hens, worried about limping, noticed anything, had any problems. Not checked for mites, no materials to dust bathe, no grit, no oyster shell. Wide open outside pen with no hawk attacks. Pure blissful ignorance--like the pioneers. I thought raising chickens would be like that.
BUT I'm so thankful for the folks on this site and my hens provide me peace, laughs and companionship every day. This site gives me the courage every day to stick it out with chicken keeping for it's pure benefits. Thanks for the kind words.

 

[Kathy Golla]

@coach723
I was at the vet today with a hen and did a "drive by" question..haha pretty much followed the vet out of the room asking the question for a "friend." he he
I asked him about your situation, he said, in his personal experience, hes been practicing for 30 years but treats all animals, but a specialty is birds:

• Very rarely is a true bumblefoot internal to the foot infection hes seen been a staph infection
• SMZ-TMP in his experience has been the best antibiotic to treat bumblefoot
• He does like Metacam to keep swelling down and keep pain at bay
• Keep debriding, flushing out that pus
• If you find a vet you like that vet may be able to really debride, flush out, and do an antibiotic injection.
• If you have a hole in the foot for debridement, it may not hurt to squirt some Baytril Otic into the wound.
• Knowing if the infection is in the bone may be instructive. He has seen it very rarely.

PS Ive used the silver silvadene cream but have gotten better results from the Baytril Otic topically. Both get through the scab. The silver silvadene cream you have to wipe off and reapply, with the Baytril Otic you can apply on top of the last application.

Rooting for you and you rooster and hen. Your persistence is admirable.