Oprah at the beef packing plant-Feb 1

[seedcorn]

Modern Ag is in constant change. I have to attend over 100 hours of meetings per year for the company I work for to stay competent (or at least as much as this moron can be). That doesn't include the many hours of self study because Ag is in change--unlike organic who are still doing the same things we did in the '50's. I have no problem w/organic until they start preaching and making promises they can't back up.

Veal barns at one time were a disgrace to humanity. I REFUSE to work in them as they were. Now (at least in Indiana) they are small pens where they can see, walk, etc and act like a young animal. They are just protected by a building from the elements. Altho I still refuse to eat veal. The repugnant side of the veal business is because of religious beliefs and what they considered premium veal. I have no problem killing and eating young animals, it's just the veal industry (in my opinion) was a side of ag that I didn't like so therefore refused to participate in. I would love to see oprah take on that religious sect...........like that is going to happen.

She knows where her $$$$ comes from.

But to condemn a whole industry because of one aspect would be like saying all humanity should be locked in jails because of Charles Manson.

 

[Organics North]

Quote:
Great post Katy, I sure do like the way you write..

Thanks.
. Just one little thing.. I do not see questioning a business or industry about its practices as ungrateful. Especially an industry so vital to our nation. Agriculture is the foundation of a nation, I feel it is good for all to question and challenge something so vital to every citizen.

Did you know canned tuna has soy in it??? That one floored me, as I am eating my can of tuna today.

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Quote:
Seedcorn.. Your post just about had me LOL..

Thanks.. It is nice to finally get to know you a little bit..

OK, is that fair? Organic doing the same things ag did in the 50's?
That is not really true. For example: The science and understanding of soil mycology has come a long ways since the 50's.
I do not believe things like endomycorrhizal, ectomycorrhizal, archaebacteria and bacteria were understood. I could go on and on but I won't....

ON

 

[Katy]

Quote:
Great post Katy, I sure do like the way you write..

Thanks.
. Just one little thing.. I do not see questioning a business or industry about its practices as ungrateful. Especially an industry so vital to our nation. Agriculture is the foundation of a nation, I feel it is good for all to question and challenge something so vital to every citizen.

Did you know canned tuna has soy in it??? That one floored me, as I am eating my can of tuna today.

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ON

Nope didn't know tuna had soy in it......I don't buy it.

I don't have a problem with questioning.....I have a problem with blanket statements being posted as fact about farming and livestock operations when they are far from fact.

 

[Dunkopf]

I know what people consider inhumane treatment of chickens. I haven't seen anything I consider inhumane yet. However I'm sure there is some out there. All I have seen is a You Tube video that was on this forum. It showed stacks of cages with chickens in them. They had conveyor belts in front of them and under them. The ones in front had food on them, underneath took away waste. Eggs went on another conveyor at the rear. Looked like a pretty boring existence, no scratching or wing flapping going on. However they looked comfortable. Chickens have reptilian brains so I don't really believe they were unhappy as we would become unhappy in the same position. JMO of course.

I've never seen a chicken for meat operation. I would be interested to know if they actually inject antibiotics or growth hormones in them. I don't see how they could grow much faster than a Cornish X. Maybe they inject antibiotics to keep them from getting sick. I've never spoken to anyone that runs a large scale operation. I don't trust anything I read on the internet.

I am sure I am ignorant about cattle. However I have always seen them grazing on fields with grass. They are then taken to a feed lot and appear to be given free choice of corn and water. They are a lot more crowded, but they don't appear terribly uncomfortable and do what they do best. Eat and poop. I've seen some huge feed lots. Look to be about 10 acres with row after row of concrete feed troughs and cows lined up eating at them. Is this the inhumane treatment? I am just asking because I really don't know.

Where I live on the high plains of Colorado, they average about 1 cow per acre. The grass is so sparse that it won't support more than that. They have some small feed lots in some of the towns 30 or 40 miles away. I understand that the standard method of killing the cows is send them through a chute and they use a bolt to the skull which doesn't always work. From there on the only issue is sanitation as far as I'm concerned and how healthy the end product is.

Why would Tuna have soy? Do they farm raise Tuna? I know they farm raise a lot of the smaller fish, but Tuna is pretty big.

 

[True Grit]

Cattle are kept in feedlots for only 90 to 120 days of their existence. It may be stressful to be crowded but it is economically unrewarding to stress the animal so I wouldn't think they are overcrowded. Most of the modern packing plants use cattle handling systems designed by Temple Grandin to reduce stress for the cattle. They travel up a winding ramp and as soon as they enter the (could be called the table ,I can't quite remember the term but the floor slants together in a loose V to support them without them moving forward) they are humanely stunned. I suppose there could be a few misses in 5000 head per day but they would be immediately restunned. At that point they're brain dead, before their aorta is cut to bleed them. If people are going to eat beef I can't imagine a more humane way of slaughtering a large animal unless they were anesthetized first, which would leave residue in the beef. A stressed animal would be a "dark cutter" so everything is done to minimize the stress.
As I understand cattle feeding, and I am not very knowledgeable on that end of things, growth hormones may be used but antibiotics are not unless an animal is ill.

 

[maizey]

Quote:
LOL....it's on the verge of exploding I think!!!!

They don't want the truth......the truth wouldn't give them any villian to fight against or any cause to fight for. They'd have to find something else to p&m about.

So true, so true. Just makes you wonder why the nonsense continues.

Honestly, I think it should be mandatory education, along with reading, writing, and arithmetic, to learn where your food comes from and how it gets to the grocery store. The educational system is severely lacking in this department.

Heres your chance. I have 170 middle school students in 6 foods classes. What do you want them to know? We've been discussing Michale Pollans "Food Rules"....I take it many of you have a different take on what he is writing about and I am interested. I am teaching from a diet and nutrition point of view.

 

[Organics North]

Yes Katy,
I agree blanket statements are no good..

Fact or fiction That is indeed the debate..

I honestly do not know how prevalent the use of antibiotics as feed conversion tool is.......
......... So I have been trying to read up, trying to see both sides of this (at least to me) important factor in modern methods of raising livestock.
How is this link, a little less one sided... As it has part of the article representing industry.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/meat/safe/overview.html

I really do not know how many cattle raised in the "traditional" way of bringing them in from pasture to finish them at the feed lot, verses cattle raised in confinement through the whole cycle. Finding good data with out a bias one way or another is quite a challenge.. I know the steer we are eating was 100% grass fed, with no drugs what so ever used in it's life cycle.

Dunk,

It is hard enough to get a hold of good data on the nutritional impact/food safety impact of current practices, let alone get a clear picture on "ethics". Deep personal beliefs and Religion are wild cards. I do not feel we could ever tackle that beast.. Regardless it is in a packing plants best interest to keep stress to a minimum to maximize profit and quality... So I think the only thing for sure is producers do their best to minimize stress. (IMO modern stun techniques work pretty efficiently.) I have maybe butchered 10 cattle in my life.. We had a problem with bullet deflection on one.. Had to shoot it in the head a second time. Meat was fine... Unlike the one that a pack of dogs chased out onto the ice where it broke its back... The meat balls from that steer would bounce they were so tough..

I would like to learn how the regional Ho-mung do it. They have you shoot the steer and they process it right on the hide where it fell..

Tuna, no it is not farm raised, maybe they add soy as filler.??.

Soy is the second ingredient after fish, then vegetable broth, in water packed tuna.. )
I have a relative that lost weight by eating a high protein diet. He ate a massive amount of tuna for a couple years.. Then had a Thyroid cancer. Related or not? Any ones guess. But I find it interesting because hormonal imbalance is one of the things being investigated with soy. Maybe just coincidence, or a double whammy with tuna not being that good for you, with it being a top of the food chain predator and concentrating heavy metals and such in it.


True grit, see if they feed anything for feed conversion efficiency.. (That is where the antibiotic debate is centered on.)



ON

 

[herfrds]

Ok first off Organic.
Back in the 40's is a better description.
No herbicide, no insectise, no chemical fertilizer. The amount of grain raised per acre was much less then what is raised now.
From what I remember from the stories my in laws talked about they figured they had a great year if they got around 30 bushels an acre.
The low end for us is around 34 bushels an acre. We cut that back in 2001. Everyone around us had lost their crops to the drought, we had the only harvest.
This year we were around 55 bushel an acre. Had neighbors up north who cut 100 bushel an acre.
One bushel of wheat will make 73 loaves of bread.

As for the cattle end. They are not given any shots or treated for lice or worms. No chemicals. They must be fed chemical free feed for so much time before they are deamed organic.
Our calves that we sell in the fall are classified as Natural. The difference is our calves are not given any hormone implants. They have also not been given any antibiotics.
any animal given antibiotics is listed for the sale barn. When it was given, what is was given and the reason why.
They are also give shots to protect them from different diseases.

Too many people watch the horror videos and think that is the way all animals are treated. Which is not true.

they do not realize the amount of time and effort that goes into producing their food.
It comes from the dirt. Someone must plant it, fertilize it, and harvest it.
The animals must be cared for and fed. They don't just appear.

 

[australorpchick]

Can someone please explain what a "dark cutter" is and why it's a bad thing for an animal to be stressed before being killed (besides the humane side of it)?

 

[herfrds]

An animal that gets adrenaline in it's system will cause the meat to have a bad flavor.