Organic and Economy

[farmerbrown]

We still have to buy butter, beans, flower, cornmeal, sugar, and the other baking stuff. We have a green house, chickens, cows, and goats. We also grow as much of the animal feed that we can on our farm. Because 80% of the nutrition mammals eat comes back out if managed correctly there’s a low cost of fertilizes.

In the summer we make about 20% more power then we use and sell it back and in the winter we fall short by about 5%. You would not know by the way our kids leave the TV and lights on all the time that we are energy efficient. We are just the ones with 3 small wind mills and a few solar panels. Our house was built using modern technologies. About the only thing you would notice that is odd would be thick walls and the second the 2 car garage 10’ off the house with no drive way leading to it.

The power goes out a lot in our neck of the woods for days or weeks at a time. Most people have huge generators that use 80 to 120 gallons of diesel in 24 hours. Our HVAC compressor and some optional outlets are tied into the power grid everything else is the same. So there’s no AC but it dose not run unless it’s in the 90’s some and unneeded stuff turns off. The worst part for us is shorter showers and one TV.

I have showed other in my area the cost difference between a wind / PV system and a generator if rated at 100A 220V. If you just look at the cost and insulation the generator wins every time. When you add in the fuel cost and upkeep of the systems for 7 years based on 30 days with out power I’m ahead. Most of the larger generators last 7 to 10 years where were at. 30 days x 80 gallons of diesel x $3.50 a gallon = $8,400 just for the outages then repair and running the system once a week for 30 minutes needs to get added in to your power bill. Yes this is based of a LARGE generator that can run most houses and will come on when your not home or in the middle of the night.

There are other bonuses with my system is -$56 for my 08 power bill, government installation bonus, state installation bonus (some states are better than other), yearly tax credits, my green credits if I sold them, and not having to figure out how to fill the fuel in the tank with 2” of ice on the ground makes the pay off happen fast IMO.

 

[farmerbrown]

To the people that thinking organic cost a lot of money your right it dose. But if you eat less hormones and chemically altered food you get a health diet with a little change and cost less.

I do not know how a parent could stand there and pump hormones in to a child. These hormones are causing puberty to start years sooner. IMO this leads to early sex and violence in our kids.

 

[bigjohn]

I believe anything you can grow your self is much better than store bought products. At least you know where it came from and that the additives are not in the products.

Grinding my own wheat and baking my own whole grain bread is a step in the right direction (been making whole grain bread and sourdough bread for over 3 years now). Now with a few quail and a garden, I should be improving my family's diet from the fast food world.

Hopefully the economy will cause a generation that thinks all food comes from cans, stores, and restaurants, will begin to learn new skills in raising food for themselves.

 

[AHappychick]

Quote:
oh your house sounds very cool. When my so and I build our dream house it will be all green and generate its own power too. right now we are getting certified by as many green companies as wel can so that we can build that way for others.

btw hi its nice to meet another organic farmer

I agree with the hormones and early puberty and violence thing.

 

[j.luetkemeyer]

One big reason for the higher prices on organic food is the supply compared to the demand. There just isn't enough growers to meet the demand. It can cost more to grow organic if you make it cost more. Usually the first few years cost more because of the lack of compost materials. As a previous member stated, the soil is the most important aspect of growing organic. Most of the organic farmers have to take 2-3 years to build their soil before planting crops. It is also a good idea for larger growers to rotate green manure crops in between food crops. This can cause their output to be less than the commercial growers that constantly replant food crops and never give the soil a break. They are essentially using the soild for a growing medium. The only nutrients the plants get is what they are given by the farmer. This isn't natural and is not sufficient enough to grow healthy food. Just think, most fertilizers only contain 3 elements. A healthy plant requires dozens. Another good film to watch is "Food Matters". You can check that film out at http://www.foodmatters.tv
This film explores the problems with nutrition in modern society.

Forgot to mention sheet mulching as a good way of building soil and not having to till. No till is very important, especially after you have developed good soil. You can also do a search on plants that are good at busting up soil and loosening it. Alfalfa is a good soil builder that brings nutrients up from deep within the ground. It also has the ability to loosen soil. Buckwheat is an excellent cover crop for establishing good humus. Comfrey is an excellent mineral accumulator that can be used directly as a green mulch. You can use straw or other mulches to keep weeds down. Make sure to plant many flowers and herbs among your fruits and vegetables. They will act as pest deterrants as well as help provide other benefits. Search for companion planting on the internet. Borage is an excellent plant for helping build disease resistance, deter tomato horn worm, and encourage growth. The list goes on and on.

 

[farmerbrown]

There is no reason to use a green company and get green certifications for your plans unless you want to spend more money, have a program you must fit into, want a number to brag about, or you have a rebate system set up that will pay for being green.

We are not “green” at all but we are smart. My wife doesn’t think it was a shower unless she stands there for 10 minutes in the water. One of my kids can not sleep with out the light and the noise of a TV; if you turn it off she wakes up, if you turn it down she wakes up, if you block the light she wakes up, and if you flip the breaker on the other end of the house that feeds it she wakes up.

There are to much green stuff out there that will not last a few years or you could do it right that will last till the end of my life and might last out last my kids too with little upkeep. You need to look at the long term cost difference of what is green and the smart thing to install would be. I would rather do it right now and pay more then doing it “green” twice and have it cost more in the long run.

The green standards are still to broad like if you tell me it is organic. Being “green” and being “organic” means nothing to me because there is no set of the standards that all the brokers / certifiers must use. To me it’s just means a pile of soft wet cattle dung. There is one “organic” certifier in the US that will let you use hormones.

The primary technology that most PV panels are made with has a 1 in 10 chance of having a negative impact on the earth but why are they “green”?

In 2007 a study was done that found one third of the “wind farms” in the USA used more power then they made in a 365 day study. No I’m not talking about the making and installing them. I’m talking about the blades must keep turning when there is no wind. This is because of the huge amount of wind it would take to get the mass moving; just think about the weight of the blades and the amount of friction there would be to turn them. Don’t forget about the vector currents of the magnetic mass or the part of the rotor not being balanced on the other side of the pivot point that has to be looked at before it starts to move. Yes there are better and cheaper types of turbines that would work in the same locations and would not need to be spun as fast by there motor.


Now I’m not trying to say being green or organic is not a good thing but I think people should know the truth of what there spending there money on, how long it will last, and the long term damage that was done to the globe. Yes it might be a step in the right direction because we did try witch is 50% of the battle.

One more thing to anyone that has ever recycled just one plastic drink bottle in your life. Did you know that if the cap was not taken off the bottle it ends up in a land fill because it cost too much to remove the caps?

 

[AHappychick]

the reason we are getting the certificates and such is because we own a constuction company and then we can build "green" homes for customers. it is a matter of supply and demand and what we think is best we will use in our own design of our dream home. I am aware of the pros and cons to many "green" things but I am very interested in real true green companies such as http://www.invisiblestructures.com/ as an example.

 

[Bossroo]

What is the true skinney of the ductless heat pump hype these days? The price of the heat pump is through the roof, not to mention the cost of instalation.

 

[Bossroo]

Has anyone calculated what is the true total cost of that organic chicken when that higher priced chicken leaves the farm or store to reach the dinner table for the suburban families' table? ie. my wife has to drive 14.7 miles one way to a grocery store that sells organic chicken since the nearest one doesn't carry it. Also, since the corn biofuel was mandated ,our new car whent from 27.3 miles per gallon to 17.2 miles per gallon, which makes for a loss of 10.1 miles to the gallon of gas, which in turn produces more polution not to mention the lost money. How does the green crowd justify that?

 

[farmerbrown]

How dear you get me on the ethanol.

Ethanol is why were about to go into a depression but I’m like most people and say we are already there.

One forth of all the corn grown in the US by law has to go to making ethanol. Ethanol has 80% of the power gas has by volume. So how can taking fertilizers form other countries and dumping them on our soil to grow something to use as fuel is stupid. Just think about the amount of energy it takes to get it out of the mine and on to the farm.

If a farmer dose crop rotation then he will use a lower amount fertilizer. Using less fertilizer means less runoff into streams and rivers. Because of this I have no idea why ethanol is good for the environment and “green peace” and other environmental groups want it was pushing for it. Groups all the way down to save the whales should have seen this right off the start and try to stop this.

But we need to look at the controlling of weeds and bugs that can be reduced by crop rotation but dose not happen as often because of the push for corn. Don’t forget that if the crop rotation dose not start back up soon the soil is going to be worthless for growing crops.

With less corn being processed for food then less of the good corn byproducts like sweeteners. This led to the US having to import sugar when we did export sugar. The quality of imported sugar dirty to our standards so it all gets dissolved and reprocessed to our standards. All natural sweeteners went up as companies tried to adapt there food to what was cheap. But the good part is that ant killer or better called saccharin and aspartame prices did not change much.




As far as that organic egg truly being organic the chances are slim. It would need to have organic parents, organic feed, organic bedding, and because eggs are porous it could not come in any contact with any liquid or chemical that was not organic during its handling. This would be no lubrication for any machines or hand lotion on someone hands. But we still did not look at the carton the egg is sitting in. IMO I do not see how an egg could be called organic.

If you still think its organic look at the so called organic feed that I’m sure had a drop of lubrication fall into it at one point. This one drop of lubrication would mean the chicken is not organic and was on organic soil that is not any more. If it was in a coop it would have to be sanitized with out the use of bleach or other man made chemicals.