Organic, really??

[dappertophatter]

Gritsar, no offense, but that dosen't sound quite right.

Mother Jones is known for being very controversial and askew.........lemme see if I can find something...BRB

 

[dappertophatter]

Blast, I have to go out, but: http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/ams...=Document Control Master List&acct=nopgeninfo

All the Gov. factsheets and info and whatnot.

As for number 1: While no, the soil is not tested, you're required to not use chemical fertilizers if you want certification for a number of years- I think three, but probably more.

This is a subject dear to my heart, and I'm trying really hard to stay nice.

 

[PaulaJoAnne]

What has happend, is the big Ag industry has borrowed lingo that does not rightfully belong to them.
Take free range for instance. All that means commercially, is the chickens are on the floor inside the building.

Organic veges get plenty of "Organic peticides" applied to them.
I am looking forward to the day that we will be able to finally grow everything we need.
What is even more exciting, is it will be grown on land that has never had pesticides and fertilizers applied to it

 

[gritsar]

As I said, I don't want to see the pot stirred, just putting the info. out there. For someone to say Mother Jones is wrong, but their info. is correct just doesn't make sense to me. What makes your info. more correct? Because it came from our government? That's a joke.

I prefer to get my news and issues from publishers like Mother Jones, Mother Earth News, GRIT and the like, than to follow like a sheep what our government says.

 

[greathorse]

Quote:
Just what are these Organic pesticides and what threat do they pose. As for your first "fact" it is just not accurate. While Organic ag is far from perfect, there are lots of very good small to smaller farmers that now have a lively hood in agriculture that otherwise would not be in business. I like that I support that. If you are one that desires food grown with a minimum amount of chemical input this is a good thing.

There is some common (especially on this site) mis perception that organic means no trace of the chemical world we live in. There are some that beleive that with acid rain etc. there is not such thing as organic, if that is your definition there will never be organic for you. Organic as it is defined by the growers and now the USDA is clearly defined by specific practices that are far different than conventional ag. It has much more to do with the inputs (chemical fertilizers, herbicides etc than it does with some test that can test in the parts per billion.

Just like I fully believe that conventional does a good job and provides many consumers with what they want, organic ag fills a niche and should be give the credibility it has coming to it.

The organic industry will continue to grow and improve as they discover better growing practices and management.

I simply do not understand why a site so connected to agriculture finds a way to criticize no matter which side of the fence it is on.

There is no thought more impractical than to think that this nation could be fed with an all backyard ag system. It is good for many of us that have the gift of living in a rural area, and I support that local micro system, but cannot support the masses, never will

 

[OccamsTazer]

While I am a huge supporter of local and organic farming, I'm a bit leery of the science-phobia that seems so prevalent in the organic movement.
You get people going, "Oh noes! This has liquefied dihydrogen monoxide* in it!"
While the "if you can't pronounce it, don't eat it" is a decent rule of thumb, everything has a chemical name. An IUPAC-derived name doesn't necessarily mean something is inherently bad.



*The hilarious dihydrogen monoxide site:
http://www.dhmo.org/

 

[Wifezilla]

"We are beyond organic. Organic is a non-comprehensive term--it does not define many variables. Goodness, you can grow certified organic carrots using seed that you produced yourself, bought from a seed saver, or acquired from the other side of the planet. The soil can be fertilized with on-farm generated compost and manure or bags and jugs of concoctions created in industrial factories. You can prepare the soil by double digging, tractor tilling, or carpet mulching like permaculture. You can weed those carrots with plastic mulch, by hand, propane flamers. You can pick those tomatoes yourself, with family labor, or non-community labor. And this is nowhere near the variables just in raising carrots. And in livestock the allowable variables are even more than with plants. Most organic eggs in this country are raised in factory houses. Ditto meat birds. Cornucopia project and other watchdog groups have had to routinely sue the USDA to get enforcement of the National Organic Standards. I don't trust the government as far as I can throw a bull by the tail--and that's not very far. Why in the world would people who spent a lifetime castigating the USDA for its unabashed promotion of industrial food give it the authority to regulate honest food? This is called intellectual schizophrenia.

I first realized the fallacy of organic certification in around 1990 when I realized our pastured chickens could be certified organic if we purchased certified feed from 1,000 miles away but since we didn't have any local organic grain growers, buying my grain locally eliminated the certification chances. In my opinion, patronizing my neighbor so he doesn't get discouraged and sell to a strip mall is certainly as environmentally sensible as bathing my grains in transport diesel fuel and exporting my dollars outside the neighborhood just so I could claim organic purity." - Joel Salatin
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/08/joel-salatin-americas-most-influential-farmer.php/

 

[greathorse]

Quote:
All good points but I will submit that while Salatin has a system that works for him it is not a system that could immediately be duplicated by all. I will continue to support the fact that foods grown under organic standards have their place. It is far from a perfect system and not one the USDA rammed down our throats. USDA in this case reluctantly worked with growers to create a more or less universal starting point so that there is some consistency in growing practices. Prior to this there was simply no structure what soever, so those consumers that had no way of producing their own food or could not find a Salatin in their community can at least by with some understanding that there is a protocol in place.

Still dont get why this is a bad thing I really dont.

 

[redhen]

Quote:

 

[ArizonaNessa]

Quote:
Isn't that water?