organic scratch & peck vs. purina

[latebloomer]

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How do those cause loss of trees?

gotta take the trees down to provide pasture land for more and more animals, and to make fields for more and more soybean plants.

again, this is a broad brush take on a complex issue

 

[kizanne]

Well soy in and of itself isn't bad. But there are several issues that surround soy. Again it is one of those choices you read and make up your own mind. If money is your primary concern then buy the inexpensive food it won't hurt.

Soy when they say deforestation they mean rainforests. Many of the farmers around the amazon and other rainforest areas are cutting trees down to grow more crops and one of the major crops is soybean. Not for their food but to sell to the soybean hungry world.

http://www.mongabay.com/external/soybeans2003.htm

In addition, there is the question of where is it coming from. Not all grain used for animal feed is US grain. I've listed the top 4 soy producers in the world. brazil and Argentina are where you see the rainforest destruction and China of course in my opinion is not to be trusted. If you are buying soy feed from a local mill you are ok but if you are buying it from a big agri company like Purina you can't be sure where the soy came from and what pesticides or other items where used in it's production. The other countries do not follow our growing guidelines and some still use persistant pesticides like DDT. You may not care about organic but you might should care about persistant chemicals as they pass through food and remain in poo and soil.

US
Brazil
Argentina
China

http://www.fao.org/es/ess/top/commo...3E8B1D92A620B2E2F9?lang=en&item=236&year=2005


Then soy has the allergy thing as well. It is one of the top 8 food allergens and it is very hard for those who need soy-free food to find it today as soy is in many processed foods. If you are going to sell your eggs soy-free can help increase the price.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/food-allergies/AA00057

Soy in quantity can change your hormonal balance. Well extra estrogen maybe helpful if you are going through menapause it isn't always helpful when you are going through puberty or your 20', 30', or 40's. The japanese mostly eat soy in a fermented process and we've started jamming it in everything. Soy isn't considered to be highly digestable.

There are lots of sites for the above.

That being said. do I eat soy yes some. Do I think soy is evil no. Do I think all chicken raisers have to go soy free no. Do I choose to go soy-free, yes. I can afford it and I already have a few buyers for my eggs lined up because my eggs are non-caged, organic, soy-free, non-GMO corn. My price per dozen is $3. which for the south (I'm in north florida) is good. My husband has a friend selling at work who gets 1.50/doz. I won't ever make a fortune but the increase price does help offset the cost of the feed. I also suppliment my girls diet with garden throw outs. Since I garden organic I have tomatoes that the ants got to, I grow them collards on purpose, we have left overs from our normal produce. I also have black soldier fly larvae (they happened in my compost I did nothing) and will soon be getting meal worms. I don't go through a ton of feed (or work).

These are personal choices and not everyones wallet or conscience will be the same. It isn't that one is right and one is wrong they are different.

Kiz

 

[chickens friend]

Organic produce is a lot more expensive than regular produce, due to losses, and the methods of keeping bugs from destroying the crop(which every way that I tried did not work). For those that are worried about pesticide residue have you or do you grow a garden that you used pesticides on? If you have then after you sprayed the bugs left the plant alone because of the poison, but after a gentle rain what happened, the bugs came back and devoured the plant and you had to spray again, the reason is that the gently rain washed off the poison, now if you go buy a apple at the supper market or where ever you will wash it off first and this gets rid of the poison, end of discussion. As for soy in food I have eaten soy products and frankly they tasted like the box they were packaged in, but in chicken feed if you give them other options they will dilute the soy and I believe grow and produce just fine. About the land used for organic produce here it has to be pesticide free for 10 years, this info is several years old because that is the last time that I grew organic vegetables and have since last track in the laws.

 

[tarragon]

Quote:
Yes, I have and do grow a garden No, I don't use pesticides on it, that would rather defeat my purpose of knowing my food is safe.

You are aware that tests have been done on produce which show that the pesticides don't all stay on the outside of the fruit, aren't you? Do you really believe that something as soft fleshed as a strawberry is not going to absorb the chemicals all the way through the berry?

No one ever said that feed with soy would keep the chickens from growing and producing. Of course they will grow and produce. What some of us are saying is that we don't want to feed our flock soy because we don't want soy in our food chain. You are more than welcome to feed your flock whatever you choose, but I fail to understand why you seem so antagonistic toward organics.

 

[latebloomer]

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He is my 100lb 7yr old giant schnauzer. He did phenomenal with the chickens today!! Wasn't even super interested in them. By the afternoon, I was letting him go out in the back yard by himself (he has a dog door) and just watching from the window. Half the time, he didn't even go over to the coop!

i have an airedale terrier and she's doing just great with the chickens too, it's so nice.

 

[5chicks4us]

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Unfortunately, that is not true. The Environmental Working Group has bumped apples up to the #1 spot on the Dirty Dozen this year because even after washing and peeling apples 98% of them still are contaminated with pesticides.

 

[gale65]

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Unfortunately, that is not true. The Environmental Working Group has bumped apples up to the #1 spot on the Dirty Dozen this year because even after washing and peeling apples 98% of them still are contaminated with pesticides.

I don't believe everything the EWG says (they are a watchdog group) but I have read in a lot of places that certain foods hold pesticides worse, especially apples. Apples are the only fruit my kids really like (2 of the 3 like bananas too) and I haven't seen organic apples around here (we live out in the sticks).

 

[chickens friend]

Apples were just an example and was the first thing that came to mind. Again these are my experiences, if buying organic food gives you a happier life then by all means buy organic. The only thing that I care about is giving people more info on current situations, we cannot trust the news because they are for whom ever puts the most money in their pocket and really do not care about the general public (same goes for our government).

 

[Noymira]

Quote:
This is exactly what I've been battling with as well! Our local organic feed is $24 per 50lb bag, vs. $11 per 50lb bag of the local non-organic. We buy as much organic produce for ourselves as we can (mainly the dirty dozen and anything that's close to non-organic pricing) and I have no problem spending more for organic and natural food for my daughter, even if that I means I go with less to stretch that food budget. I hope to be able to buy the local organic feed soon, but until then the local non-organic is a good second choice.

if you're talking about Poulin, i think it's a great second choice; we're lucky to have them locally

I agree completely! I've got their starter, grower and layer pellets now for all my girls. I am interested in the Green Mountain Organics too, but I'm not sure if they make a flock raiser, which I will need shortly for my mixed flock.

 

[Cindy in PA]

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Many pesticides cannot simply be washed off, they are part of the apple or whatever. Yes, I grow a garden & no I do not use pesticides. Peppers & strawberries are two of the most pesticide laden things in the grocery store, according to the studies I've read and yet I have grown them for 30 years and never had a problem with them. Why is that?