Oriental Gamefowl Thread!

[Gresh]

Yes,he was beautiful. He would've went well into the project I have going now. Project "BLACK".

I have some FM Orientals that I got from Wclawrence last year. I have a trio of Black Sumatra/Black Giant F1s that I am introducing the FM into now. I just hatched out 20 Blue and Black FM Black Sumatras.

Here are pics of my Brazilians...

Nice birds! Looks like the cock has some AG blood or something 'cause his comb is quite large and lumpy (for a pea-comb). Nice coloration on him.

Am I right that you're crossing Jersey Giants to Black Sumatras to try to improve your Sumatras? Forgive me for saying this, but that is very unethical breeding. Sumatras don't have a drop of Giant blood in them. It would be much more ethical to cross a Sumatra to an Oriental gamefowl since they are more closely related. Forgive me if I have misjudged you but Sumatra type is already suffering enough and doesn't need to be polluted with unrelated breeds.

 

[fowlman01]

Nice birds! Looks like the cock has some AG blood or something 'cause his comb is quite large and lumpy (for a pea-comb). Nice coloration on him.

Am I right that you're crossing Jersey Giants to Black Sumatras to try to improve your Sumatras? Forgive me for saying this, but that is very unethical breeding. Sumatras don't have a drop of Giant blood in them. It would be much more ethical to cross a Sumatra to an Oriental gamefowl since they are more closely related. Forgive me if I have misjudged you but Sumatra type is already suffering enough and doesn't need to be polluted with unrelated breeds.

I don't know if I would call it unethical, but it is certainly not the way to go. You do need to tell people what you have done if you sell the birds though. That might be the last cross I would do with a Sumatra. The body forms are quite different......everything is quite different.

Walt

 

[Gresh]

I don't know if I would call it unethical, but it is certainly not the way to go. You do need to tell people what you have done if you sell the birds though. That might be the last cross I would do with a Sumatra. The body forms are quite different......everything is quite different.

Walt

Well, I wasn't sure what to call it exactly. "Unethical" just came to mind so I described it that way. However, that does sound very liken to animal rights mumbo-jumbo, which I detest. I guess I would do better to say that such a cross is "mismanaged stewardship" of the Sumatra's bloodlines.

I'm honestly a little surprised you're not more against such a cross. Sumatras aren't even distantly related to Giants. I have heard of people ruining Sumatra bloodlines and type simply because they wanted to cross Giants in so they could get better color on their birds. It's just as bad as crossing an Old English Game bantam to a Ko-Shamo in order to get better or newer colors in the Ko-Shamo bloodlines. It ruins type and it may be generations of crossing before you could honestly say your birds are pure Ko-Shamo, and even then they would not be as pure as the original Kos.

Sorry if I have misunderstood you or come across rude, but I am just repeating "breeding guidelines" I have heard from dedicated breeders on this site.

God bless,
~Gresh~

 

[NateDomRIR]

No Sirs, I'm not trying to improve my Sumatras with Giants...sorry if I gave that impression...my Cackle Sumatras are maybe a little short legged...My 2 year old Black Sumatra cock has a long tail and dark Gypsy face. He is very game...likes to fly up to your face to fight you...hates my girlfriend....

Last year I made some Black Sumatra/Black Jersey Giant chicks for my "BLACK" project. I have a trio of those F1s... I am hatching F2s now. I will be hatching my first F1xFm chicks next week...I have hatched (20) Black Sumatra x FM chicks...Blues and Blacks...some black skin under wing...vent...legs...bottom of feet...THESE are all for my "Black Project"...

I keep my purebreeds pure....

I am also interested in the Satsumidori Projects and the importation of them...would love to get some real ones some day...am thinking about getting some nice Cubalayas...does anyone know if Sam Bush still has them?

I had some nice Asils form Ideal last year...got a couple of Spangles in the bunch...

trying to upload yesterdays pics of Sumatras...really slow connection going thru phone as hotspot.....

 

[fowlman01]

Well, I wasn't sure what to call it exactly. "Unethical" just came to mind so I described it that way. However, that does sound very liken to animal rights mumbo-jumbo, which I detest. I guess I would do better to say that such a cross is "mismanaged stewardship" of the Sumatra's bloodlines.

I'm honestly a little surprised you're not more against such a cross. Sumatras aren't even distantly related to Giants. I have heard of people ruining Sumatra bloodlines and type simply because they wanted to cross Giants in so they could get better color on their birds. It's just as bad as crossing an Old English Game bantam to a Ko-Shamo in order to get better or newer colors in the Ko-Shamo bloodlines. It ruins type and it may be generations of crossing before you could honestly say your birds are pure Ko-Shamo, and even then they would not be as pure as the original Kos.

Sorry if I have misunderstood you or come across rude, but I am just repeating "breeding guidelines" I have heard from dedicated breeders on this site.

God bless,
~Gresh~

Oh.I think it is unethical too, but I have come to the point where I know I can't stop all this willy nilly breeding, so I just say it should not be done. I can't read a lot of threads here because of the crazy crosses people are doing. It would not be as bad if they were honest when they sold the birds and said they were mutts, but such things are called "Projects" on here. I am certainly against such a cross, but I can't tell people what to do with their birds...wish I could........lol

Trust me.....I'm with you on this. I don't believe in crossing breeds period.....for any reason. Improvement can always been accomplished within the breed.

I hope people don't start messing with the KO's.
BTW: there is an effort to get the KO's recognized by the APA and ABA. Suzann Chung is putting the proposals together with some help from me and a few others. The first color to qualify will be Wheaten.

Walt

 

[fowlman01]

No Sirs, I'm not trying to improve my Sumatras with Giants...sorry if I gave that impression...my Cackle Sumatras are maybe a little short legged...My 2 year old Black Sumatra cock has a long tail and dark Gypsy face. He is very game...likes to fly up to your face to fight you...hates my girlfriend....

Last year I made some Black Sumatra/Black Jersey Giant chicks for my "BLACK" project. I have a trio of those F1s... I am hatching F2s now. I will be hatching my first F1xFm chicks next week...I have hatched (20) Black Sumatra x FM chicks...Blues and Blacks...some black skin under wing...vent...legs...bottom of feet...THESE are all for my "Black Project"...

I keep my purebreeds pure....

I am also interested in the Satsumidori Projects and the importation of them...would love to get some real ones some day...am thinking about getting some nice Cubalayas...does anyone know if Sam Bush still has them?

I had some nice Asils form Ideal last year...got a couple of Spangles in the bunch...

trying to upload yesterdays pics of Sumatras...really slow connection going thru phone as hotspot.....

Flying up to your face has nothing to do with being game and if he did that here he would be planted in the garden. Sam still has his Cubalaya's.

Walt

 

[NateDomRIR]

Sorry if I just blurt stuff out there...

I am reading through the thread and I comment on things from time to time...

I bought my Brazillian pair last Spring/Summer. I thought she was a young pullet. She has not laid one egg yet...I just started supplementing their Layer pellets with fishy dry cat food....hoping she'll start laying....her comb is dark red...I think she is making a nest in her box now...what else can I do?...

 

[fowlman01]

Sorry if I just blurt stuff out there...

I am reading through the thread and I comment on things from time to time...

I bought my Brazillian pair last Spring/Summer. I thought she was a young pullet. She has not laid one egg yet...I just started supplementing their Layer pellets with fishy dry cat food....hoping she'll start laying....her comb is dark red...I think she is making a nest in her box now...what else can I do?...

Not a problem at all. How old is she? A year? These Orientals don't lay like Leghorns, but she should be laying by now.

Walt

 

[gallo4319]

My favorite rooster he is so docile toward humans

 

[NateDomRIR]

Not a problem at all. How old is she? A year? These Orientals don't lay like Leghorns, but she should be laying by now.

Walt

18 months....maybe more....