Oriental Gamefowl Thread!

[MMT9]

Thnx

 

[MMT9]

MMT9,
What cock do you have over those hens? Where did your stock originate? Do you have any eggs or chicks for sale out of those birds? Thanks
Nate

OkChickens,
Till now I didnt get a cock for them. I am thinking of keeping a Pakistani gamefowl that look similar to O-shamos, even if its not 100% pure breed.
Because they are very hardy and can stand the hot weather here in the desert of the arabian peninsula,
Some pure bred chickens (o-shamo) in my opinion expirenced alot of inbreeding, then when kept in our hot climate some defects will show up (in my expirence!).
That is why I am welling to breed from a cock bred from crossing different strains together.
what do you think ?

 

[SD_Paulo]

OkChickens,
Till now I didnt get a cock for them. I am thinking of keeping a Pakistani gamefowl that look similar to O-shamos, even if its not 100% pure breed.
Because they are very hardy and can stand the hot weather here in the desert of the arabian peninsula,
Some pure bred chickens (o-shamo) in my opinion expirenced alot of inbreeding, then when kept in our hot climate some defects will show up (in my expirence!).
That is why I am welling to breed from a cock bred from crossing different strains together.
what do you think ?

MMT~

Personally, I would appreciate and like to see the photos of the Pakistani gamefowl you are considering? I think that is one of the things lacking on this site. Itis members from different countries posting photos of the gamefowl from their homeland.

In the states, I am use to seeing the Reza size or slightly larger Pakistani games. But if you know of some that are as tall or as big as Oshamo that would be something to share.

Regarding crossing shamo and Asil, well if the Shamo are that fragile, in your parts, then it might not be a bad idea, especially if your end game is to get back to Shamo type.

Good luck and please keep posting photos of your beautiful games.

 

[fowlsessed]

Those are my two spangled O-shamo hens.

Not to drag on about this. but..... I noticed another bird in the background of the middle pic. Shouldn't that hen be DEAD according to some statements that I was given on here? Just trying to figure this one out, thanks

 

[D3invertebrates]

 

[rebel yell]

Just wanted to show off my white Asil stag, he is about 4-5 months old here.

 

[pride&joy]

My experience with the Jim Zook Shamos are the cocks will be fine with anything that doesn't show aggression towards them in large areas; its not until they are confined to a pen that they really turn aggressive. So if the heritage birds avoided the Shamo they might live, but the issue is too. These are large birds, they're very muscular and though they may not chase an individual down usually if one gets close over feed or something don't be surprised if they start hitting that individual (even yard fowl will do this). That can result in a broken neck, back, head trauma, etc. Things like that don't usually happen with heritage fowl, but it is a possibility with Shamo and other game fowl in general (even some American Game fowl, I've heard of some breaking birds backs). So even if normally they are good friends, a "accident" can happen.

There are Shamo strains that are more aggressive than the Jim Zook no doubt, but if you were looking for some that may possibly work you may try the Zook's or even hatchery stock (but don't expect the hatchery stuff to look much like Shamo). In my experience honestly the hens are more aggressive than the cocks in not being able to tolerate other birds, they'll kill everything; roosters, stags, pullets, hens. At least the cocks were only worried about mature roosters.

God bless,
Daniel.

Hello Daniel, think we may have discuss this topic at some point in the past. I must say I don't agree, there may be some Shamo that are dunghill just like there are fowl of any type. Particularly in the current legal standing it is hard to even have this discussion much less work to maintain and improve lines of fowl. Of the several lines of shamo that I started with all but one made better soup. I did happen on to one that was worth keeping (before any of the radical peta types get all worked up, would not dream of breaking the law). I did acquire some fowl from William Roberts a good friend of Mr Zook and I believe the young stag in question is from this fowl. If memory serves me the stag in question was maybe 5 mo at the time. Plenty of stags will back down at that age. I can't speak for certain of Will's whites as I have not had them long enough to have a good sample size. I will say in the three generations I have kept the Dom line they have not done anything to make me think less of them. That line in particular seem like there is a time around 2 mo they might have a battle Royall and end up with blinkers and such. Them they will be ok till about 8-9 mo until one day it changes. I pasture raise my young fowl with lots of open space and green grass to spread out in. I all ways looking for who needs to be caught to try and avoid disaster. Now I am not attempting to stirr up a hornets nest or shut down this thread just speaking my two cents.

 

[DTchickens]

Hello Daniel, think we may have discuss this topic at some point in the past. I must say I don't agree, there may be some Shamo that are dunghill just like there are fowl of any type. Particularly in the current legal standing it is hard to even have this discussion much less work to maintain and improve lines of fowl. Of the several lines of shamo that I started with all but one made better soup. I did happen on to one that was worth keeping (before any of the radical peta types get all worked up, would not dream of breaking the law). I did acquire some fowl from William Roberts a good friend of Mr Zook and I believe the young stag in question is from this fowl. If memory serves me the stag in question was maybe 5 mo at the time. Plenty of stags will back down at that age. I can't speak for certain of Will's whites as I have not had them long enough to have a good sample size. I will say in the three generations I have kept the Dom line they have not done anything to make me think less of them. That line in particular seem like there is a time around 2 mo they might have a battle Royall and end up with blinkers and such. Them they will be ok till about 8-9 mo until one day it changes. I pasture raise my young fowl with lots of open space and green grass to spread out in. I all ways looking for who needs to be caught to try and avoid disaster. Now I am not attempting to stirr up a hornets nest or shut down this thread just speaking my two cents.

My opinion posted was not of Shamo as a whole, there are plenty of birds in Japan and other countries and even Suzann Chung's birds I have heard are the real deal. I also tried to make sure I specified "In my experience with the Jim Zook stock-" these birds came from Prariechiken which came from Jim Zook directly, I have the hen that PC got directly from Jim Zook. The other birds are offspring out of her and the cock which came from Jim Zook.

The resulting blood is 100% Jim Zook on the hen and the offspring are Jim Zook, William Roberts, and Dr. Sapaphor blood which came from Zook and Zook told me he has never crossed anything into his birds but kept the line pure without adding anything since his father got the line in the 1940's. I cannot find anything on the Dr. Sapaphor blood, no one knows him. Is that where the runners come from? I don't know. But I know that the blood is from Jim Zook and they are considered Jim Zook Shamo. I know that all three cocks have showed degrees of non-gameness (Two cocks ran from an American game cock at the age of 17+ months which was on tie. No birds take that long to mature, I was told the longest a Shamo should take is about 15-16 months and even then they should not have ran that quick and if they were game later on they shouldn't have been able to be around them but they are still terrified to date of them at about 3 years old).

So from my experience, I cannot say that Jim Zook's birds are game. Are some game? Well, one cock still cannot be allowed around American Game. I will admit that, but I have seen enough from him too over my experiences (not even having to fight them) to realize they are not game. It is likely anyway that the two brothers being non-game will result in him more than likely not being game.

I said that your bird at that age can get scared, my AG are game; I believe you've read my posts on UF to understand what I mean- but most at 5 months are not ready to show which is why I said the Sumatra had to have some age and weight on him to be able to take that Shamo because he shouldn't have been able to. Now that the bird has been afraid, if he is anything like the blood I have out of Will Roberts/Jim Zook, he won't face again or he won't be able to hold his courage to the Sumatra cock regardless of age; that would make him not game. I'm not saying he isn't now, I'm just saying if; you can only watch him as he grows and see.

I have watched these cocks free range and stand within 1 foot of each other just staring and never even peck at each other (they will not do this in pens, in pens they are much more aggressive and I commonly have to check to make sure they stay out of trouble) and the same two cocks one had been raised on my yard while the other was with PC so they did not recognize each other either.

That being said, I do not put any blame on PC. PC was straight up with me and he is a good and honest guy, I put nothing negative towards him at all. He didn't know I'm sure otherwise he would have told me so and the Shamo were fairly new to him (hence, all birds are first generation). But personally I will tell people that the Jim Zook blood isn't game in my experience regardless and when people ask for game Shamo I tell them to look up Suzann Chung based off of what I have heard of her birds and because I know who and where they came from (Julia Keeling).

Again: I spoke directly on Jim Zook's birds in my experience, I based my knowledge off of three different cocks (which truly, when three different cocks are a little iffy I question the whole line; Jim Zook may have different lines though that I and no one else knows about since people just specify "Jim Zook Shamo" and to my knowledge the birds do not have any identification except color. So you may have a game line and mine may not be, but given that you never know what you're getting and you could get one or the other from Jim Zook I do not suggest him or Will Roberts for game Shamo since their fowl is the same and they swap brood stock to my knowledge. I suggest Suzann Chung).

On a lighter note, the Jim Zook Shamo are awesome birds in terms of personality; general healthiness, and looks. So if someone were looking for a Shamo for show or a neat yard fowl I would suggest the Jim Zook line. Just not in the case of them being gamefowl. Due to their likeability that would be why I never culled them, I was tempted, but I didn't. They are all going to a friend in Oklahoma I imagine you all or most of you know (one pair was her's anyway and she is well aware of the whole situation). Another cock went to someone else to fulfill my word I gave and to help her out.

We did discuss this through email at one point which I believe you even agreed with me and stated the cocks were not game. And for the record even might I add, Jim Zook is a nice guy; I've spoken with him and say nothing negative of him, himself. I just say that in terms of game Shamo (which people always told me the Zook line was) I was left with great disappointment. If they had just been game enough where they showed gameness on the yard I would have been alright with keeping them... But when I watch a three year old cock run from a HEN because he is hen pecked while feeding I'm ready to get the hatchet out. Literally, run, I had to separate the two because she ran him so badly he started to lose weight. I don't care if they are a game, leghorn, or Kraienköppe; if the cock can't handle a hen (that was about two or three pounds smaller than he) he is soup on my yard (I really would have souped him much more quickly, had it not been for other people that liked him simply as a pet).

God bless,
Daniel.

 

[fowlman01]

Suzann Chungs birds...male or female will not turn away from any bird....at least that is my experience. I have her birds here and she does have Julias line.

Walt

 

[SD_Paulo]

Suzann Chungs birds...male or female will not turn away from any bird....at least that is my experience. I have her birds here and she does have Julias line.

Walt

I concur, first hand, with Walt. Mrs. Chungs, JK line of Oshamo are very true to form. The best part is they are also big ole lap dogs too.