Orpingtons - An ocean apart??

[wilds of pa]

but if in fact some UK style Orp breeders show their birds I would enjoy to see how they do against our BEST APA breeders.

Bill it should be a no brainer at a show with the two types there.. the bird that meets the APA standard the best should win no hands down..​

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Quote:
Cull Buff Orpington Bantam males are very tasty!

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Quote:
Walt, didn't some Cornish breeders try arguing to change the Cornish standard at Shawnee because of the lack of a pearl eye in the UK standard and no pearl eyes in the US birds? Yet someone had some pearl eye Cornish in their truck at Shawnee.

Glad you mentioned Ralph Brazelton. He had to hang up on me once because he had hens in trapnests that needed to be released. His Orpingtons would produce 200+ eggs per year and still meet the SOP. It was an honor competing with at the shows. I would sell everything to get some of his line. Well, almost everything. Would you trade Jacob for a trio of Ralph's line Buff Orps?

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Quote:
So, what you are saying is that the APA HAS been approached to change the SOP to British Standards? When did this happen? I'm just curious, because the last time I spoke with Sam Brush he told me that the APA HAD NOT been approached regarding changing the standard. I guess I'd just like clarification on this because this subject just keeps coming up over and over again. If, in fact, the APA has been approached, then I can understand this conversation going on and on. However, if the APA has not been approached, I guess I don't understand why people continue to beat this subject like the proverbial dead horse?

So my question, has somebody approached the APA officially requesting to change the APA SOP or not?

Thanks !!!

To my understanding, no one has "officially" approached the APA to change the Orp standard. However, on many postings on BYC and other places, it has constantly came up.

 

[lildinkem]

I think about everything that needed to be said has been said. It is ashame that these Orpington, what ever style will not want to UNITE their efforts and just agree to let the otherside alone and enjoy their birds. I have seen some UK style Orps place very well in APA sanctioned shows. It comes down to personal preference. I would weigh more on "TYPE" stressing the full well rounded breast. I see that as a major problem on both sides. I think most all need to work on better tails, bigger heads. I do not see size being a major issue. A 9 lbs cock who has a well rounded breast, perfect tail and decent head should not loose to a bird who has only size with a lousy tail and a Leghorn head. That is a quote from one of the greatest local Poultry fanciers I know "Jack Patterson". Jack also did say to me about the issue of legs, "I don't mind to see a bird with a little leg". I had asked another Orp breeder who has Jack as his mentor about my birds, the Black cock I shown pics of, if he was too leggy? He laughed and said "NO!!". Another words we have more major issues to address then legnth of leg. Again TYPE TYPE TYPE!! That should be our focus on both styles.
I wish everyone the best with their Orp programs. Hope you all have some darn nice well rounded breasted chick to raise this year. And enjoy & have FUN!!

Just to illustrate what a "FULL ROUNDED BREAST" should look like in an Orp, I pull up my 1911 Reliable Poultry Journal book and as too not offend by using mine or anyone else's bird who is alive I will like to direct you all to the Whites. Especially the White in the upper right. That is what I am talking about.

 

[tennesseeckn]

Quote:

This is the nitty gritty I want to know!! Do let us know how they taste. (feel rude wanting to know what a gorgeous piece of art tastes like...)
and the laying abilities is very, very important to me! Very impressed your girls laid eggs in the above 100 degree weather... my hatchery hens tend to take those days off.

Thank you for the United Orpington information. Now that I'm getting excited about what I'm reading here, I will seek more information there too.

I really thought my hatchery buff orpington rooster was a nice heavy bird - until I picked him up and realized the brat can't weigh more than 5 pounds. Hopefully he will make nice chicken and dumplings soon. Whomever said the hatchery type was more aggresive and not so good is very right. It is sad how the mass production of birds has cheapened the whole breed.

The whole discussion on showing, and the standards behind each type of Orpington is very interesting! Not quite sure how to call the two types, different breeds when neither side wants to give up the name, and based on location methinks the United Kingdom wins.

Thankfully that isn't my concern right now.... what birds will produce well in my situation is. Please do not take that to mean I do not want the show perspective in this thread, because I do want to hear it, read it and be knowledgable about it -- just don't want it to choke out the practical side of these beautiful birds.

Speaking of my situation, does all the fluff on the UK Orpingtons cause problems when they walk through areas with high weeds and stickers?? I've not seen any problems with my other birds, but would prefer to ask instead of assuming.

So the UK birds weigh more than the American birds and lay well for up to 3 years (with only 3 years of practical experience speaking right now.) How does the American Orp lay? Are they about the same? more, less?

How about age of maturation? What age does your birds begin laying?

fifelakelooper -- so glad you got your pictures up!!!

As you can tell, my critical eye has not been trained yet, but, for what it is worth, I think your birds are adorable!

These pictures are from March and April when my boys were younger, but you can see that they are jungle chickens. They have adapted to the wilds of East Tennessee (home of beggars lice and honeysuckle) without any problem at all. They've even made little trails all over the property. I guess they just clean themselves of whatever they pick up. I wish my dog did as good a job.

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

My concern is multi-fold.

Folks with UK Orps place auctions for eggs/chicks yet fail to make known they are UK. Unsuspecting newbies, looking for SOP quality Orpingtons then acquire that stock. Many of the US type breeders have started making it very clear we have the American SOP type Orpington. Though I am the most outspoken about the differences, I am not alone. I am not trying to flame or troll. Just educating unsuspecting newbies that truly want the American Orpington. I also see listings for "pure" Buff Orpingtons and they are actually "pure" hatchery type. Honesty in advertsiing is most important.

I challenge ALL of the breeders of the UK type Orpington to exhibit at Crossroads. The American Orpington Poultry Fanciers is considering a CASH award for Best UK Orpington just to encourage the UK breeders to exhibit. Allow folks to see the UK and American Orpington side by side and compare. Maybe even a special exhibit booth with an American Orpington, an UK Orpington and a Cochin so we can all see the differences.

I have suggested that the APA waive the 5 years requirement and allow the UK Orpington admittance if 5 breeders can show at least 50 entries. After all, the UK type is an established standard for decades, just not in the USA.

Some have pointed out concerns about hatchery Orpingtons. When I posted a photo of some of our Orpingtons folks were shocked at their size. When you take a look at a Britt, Akers or Moore Orpingtons and compare it to what most see at a county or state fairs, there is no comparison. We showed a 4 month old Buff Orpington pullet at our county fair last year and placed her beside our own 2+ year old hatchery Buff Orpington layer. Folks thought the pullet was at least the oldest.

Heritage poultry should perform better than hatchery poultry. They should be in line with the SOP. The SOP does include their production ability. Some exhibition lines are lucky to get 25-30 eggs per year. Yet Ralph Brazelton's Orps produced like leghorns.

We can not concetrate on type and lose production.

Folks can raise whatever type they want in their own backyard, But when we advertise stock for sale, we should all be honest and open about type and quality. When we get to a showroom, only the SOP matters. Folks can have whatever yard art they want. But when it is almost impossible to find a "pure" Cecil Moore Black Orpington (as Bill pointed out), something is not right. We have a Black Orp male that was hatched from Cecil Moore birds. Our hens are out of him and his hatchmates. No other line has been introduced. Thus we do have a pure Cecil Moore line of Black Orpingtons.

Well, I have watermelons to sell. Hope you guys have a great day.

 

[jeremy]

I will never exhibit my birds. I have no need to as I am not seeking approval from anyone.

I will share my birds eggs or offspring with those interested but approval is not something of my concern.

 

[kathyinmo]

Quote:
I think the UNITED ORPINGTON CLUB does a great job with ALL Orps! I encourage anyone interested in ANY Orpington to join the club.

Bill, I just wanted to thank you for posting the pages from your book. Most enjoyable reading to me. I know it was alot of work for you to scan them all, download them, upload up, and post them. Thank you for all your efforts doing that. I sure appreciate it.

 

[justuschickens59]

Quote:
X2