Partridge Questions

[nicalandia]

The lavender gene is a recessive gene, but it is epistatic over blue. meant is that if a bird is lavender and blue at the same time it looks lavender, hiding the blue.

Kaz has some Blue(Bl/bl+ and Splash Bl/Bl ) lavender mixes.. I´ll post pics of them as soon as I find them...

 

[nicalandia]

Lavender (non-blue) feathers generally have white feather shafts on the outside, darker blue-slate shafts on the inside view:
Lavender feathers, non-blue (lavlav blbl)




It is quite strange with the blue-lavenders, as the colour shade appears more like a lavender than anything, but the feather shaft shade is darker in the blue-lavender (Blbl lavlav), than in a lavender (blbl lavlav). Sometimes you can see the darker peppering (ie, uneven shade of blue) noticable in the tails, & the darker neck hackles (found in blues) may also show in a lavender-blue.


Blue-lavender feathers, outer view (lavlav Blbl) (this girl is also barred (B/W) & mottled (momo)


I can tell in my Porcelaines (coming from my Blue Millefleurs) if they have blue (Blbl) also, mostly by the tail feather shafts. The Porcelaine should have white feather shafts with the outer view.


Lavender tail feathers (non-blue), outer view (lavlav blbl) (Porcelaine pullet)


.... but as you can see with this next girl, both views have darker shaft feathers:


Blue-lavender tail feathers, outer view (lavlav Blbl) (Blue Porcelaine pullet)



Blue-lavender tail feathers, inner view (lavlav Blbl) (Blue Porcelaine pullet)


What is strange though, if anything, the inner feather shafts are lightened with the addition of the blue gene (but not in blues, non-lavender Blbl LavLav).

The following roo is splash -lavender (lavlav BlBl) (Splash Porcelaine). Notice a patch of lavender on his tail, with dark feather shaft.



Splash lavender roo (lavlav BlBl) (Splash Porcelaine), closeup of dark feather shafts:


You can see with this roo, that not only are the lavender (eumelanin) feather shafts affected by the blue/lavender genes combination, but also the gold (pheomelanin) feathers. This is noticable in young chicks, with their first feathers. I use this trait to ID splash porcelaine (cream mottled variety) from splash millefleur chicks.

 

[nicalandia]

what about the champangeblond gene (Cb)? it's dominant, too. Does anybody know what the buffs are on the calculator??????

let me find some more info on Cb and Di ok..

 

[nicalandia]

some info about Di, thanks to Mrs. Kaz one of my all time teacher..

-------------------
Di traits (from paper)
1. Incompletely Dominant,
2. Sex-influenced,
3. Adult homozygotes Di/Di plumage described as "reddish", & id+ leg colour diluted.
4. BC1 heterozygous Di/di+ chick down described as "pale-striped" (F1 x wild-type = BC1).
5. Homozygous e+ Di/Di chick down phaeomelanin significantly diluted & e+ pattern (striping) modified.

* Notes (further description of above Di list):
1: Incompletely Dominant: With id+, F1 both genders described as: "feet were blue, lighter than those of wild-type" (Buff x wild-type = F1) & adult plumage described as: "lighter wild-type colour" in BC1 Di/di+ females only (F1 x wild-type = BC1),
2. Sex-influenced: When heterozygous Di/di+, expressed only in adult female plumage, not males (on wild-type),
3. Di/Di adult plumage described in the paper as "reddish" - Smyth's interpretation (1990, PB&G, p 122) of Di description as "reddish" as: "a partial restrictor of eumelanin". Plus in Buff paper Di/Di id+ leg colour described as diluted to: "very pale, nearly white feet".
4. Three chick down phenotypes produced from Di/di+ x Di/di+ crossing (see p 454) (ie 'my interpretation' - wild-type, Di/di+, Di/Di chick down phenotypes). New chick down phenotype (ie Di/Di) described in the paper as: "pale & lacked the lateral black back stripes (Fig. 3 - * see photo below). Unlike wheaten chicks, these showed fairly welll developed head stripe & eye stripe".
The following image (Fig. 3, from above paper) - e+/e+ Di/Di chick down (on right):

 

[nicalandia]

The Champagne Blond - Cb mutation was segregated from a Buff Minorca bird. See the following paper (or in my signature Genetics References - link 4):
Genetics of Buff and Related Color Patterns in the Fowl
By J.A. Brumbaugh and W. F. Hollander
http://www.chickencolours.com/Genetics of Buff Brum&Holl.pdf
The only Cb description given on mature plumage colour in the paper is: "somewhat similar to Golden Duckwing". This was for heterozygotes (Cb/cb+) - one dose only, as none were interbred to get homozygotes (they all died out). The chick down is not supposed to be modified by Cb (when het. Cb/cb+), ie no dilution, etc. The researchers believed that there might be a close linkage with Gr (Gr gene later believed to be the same mutation as Co - Columbian).
As the Cb line died out before the mutation could be distributed to other researchers, & that there is very little description given in the above paper, the above description is all that can be given accurately on phenotype (unless alternate information is provided by the paper's researchers). For another researcher to determine if they have the same mutation in a bird, they need to segregate out this mutation - ie test the mutation individually on wild type (determine inheritance mode, chick down, & adult plumage colour/pattern on wild type, etc). Otherwise, diverting from the above description - it is just a guess.

 

[nicalandia]

The Champagne Blond - Cb mutation was segregated from a Buff Minorca bird. See the following paper (or in my signature Genetics References - link 4):

Genetics of Buff and Related Color Patterns in the Fowl
By J.A. Brumbaugh and W. F. Hollander
http://www.chickencolours.com/Genetics of Buff Brum&Holl.pdf

The only Cb description given on mature plumage colour in the paper is: "[somewhat similar to Golden Duckwing". This was for heterozygotes (Cb/cb+) - one dose only, as none were interbred to get homozygotes (they all died out). The chick down is not supposed to be modified by Cb (when het. Cb/cb+), ie no dilution, etc. The researchers believed that there might be a close linkage with Gr (Gr gene later believed to be the same mutation as Co - Columbian).

As the Cb line died out before the mutation could be distributed to other researchers, & that there is very little description given in the above paper, the above description is all that can be given accurately on phenotype (unless alternate information is provided by the paper's researchers). For another researcher to determine if they have the same mutation in a bird, they need to segregate out this mutation - ie test the mutation individually on wild type (determine inheritance mode, chick down, & adult plumage colour/pattern on wild type, etc). Otherwise, diverting from the above description - it is just a guess.

 

[Coopacabana]

Ok so it would be simpler to have separate isabel partridge and blue partridge breeding pens, if i just wanted those colors and no blue/lav partridge. So epistasis is what you call it when the effects of one gene are changed by a different gene. My biology textbook is too concerned with peas and people who go without food for the sake of learning to mention that, lol. I think the whole lemon thing might be a bit ambious, and anyways i was looking at some blue partridge bramas and I like them. Now, I see to two kinds of partridge wyandotte: Dark red ones like this:

And lighter brown/gold ones like this:

Now my understanding is that the red ones have the mahogany gene (Mh) and the brown/gold ones don't. If I want that brown/gold coloration with blue penciling then I should use the brown/gold ones, i guess. But am I right about mahogany gene? Is wyandotte the best breed to use if my goal is blue partridge (as in penciled) large fowl orpingtons?

 

[nicalandia]

can´t see the pics...

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

I have had birds that are blue and lavender and splash and lavender. Without breeding records, there was just about no way to see the difference between them and those who were only blue or only splash or only lavender. Bl/Bl lav/lav show splashing. Bl/bl+ lav/lav show darker heads, hackles, etc. I will say I haven't seen "dark blues" that are also lavender, and I would be surprised if i did.

 

[Coopacabana]

Dark red ones:

light gold/brown ones:

So i've heard that having the mahogany (Mh/Mh or Mh/mh) gene on a silver bird can give them a dirty, red brown cast. If i wanted blue penciled as well as blue partridge, then I REALLY don't want the mahogany gene, and anyways i like the idea of the gold color with blue rather than the red with blue. So is this the mahogany gene at work?