Partridge Silkies - Nothing else

[ChickNmamma]

My god Sonoran..thank you..I had read this on the website....what I meant is actually the combinations of all this.Am I clear? Don't think so....sorry...

And what is the difference...genetically speaking between dark brown...chocolate...and brown

Isabelle

Yes, getting the understanding of what the bases and what all the different genes do, that is the hard part.. Its not just the abbreviations, but how they interact with each other. The combination, yes that is a better description to explain what you mean.

Hmmm... there is a Brown in chickens that is based on a red/black feather pattern combination - when we say Brown or Asiatic Partridge we mean this kind of brown/red base: e^b is a base - its the pattern of the feathers that the rest of the colors get painted on - and it has a different way it interacts with other base colors and different genes.
There is a Dark Brown (Db) that is a gene that can change the body color and changes the tail black (Blacktail) with two copies. Its incomplete dominant, so with one copy it shows but is called "incomplete", with two copies its complete. The bird is not actually "Brown", they can be buff, or cream, or changed to Red with Mahogany (Mh) - so even though the gene is called Dark Brown it does not make the bird dark brown.
Chocolate (choc) is a recessive gene that is pretty rare, not seen in a lot of birds, that with two copies modifies the Black feathers and turns them to Brown. It doesn't change the Red based feathers. Chocolate It can be mixed with one copy of Blue (Bl) to do weird things to the Black (khkai). One copy of choc does not show on the males (they are called "split to chocolate") - but on the females since they only have one copy (it is sex linked) if they have choc, they are brown where the black would be.
If you use the calculator and click on the down arrow and change the gene you can see what it does to the picture of the bird above. What I did was change the base type from the basic "clean" bird (e+/e+), and see what all the different bases looked like. Then I went down to the next gene with the base, changed that - saw what it did, changed it back and to the next gene. It would take awhile to go through all the combinations - and sometimes the pictures don't show what actually changes in the bird - but you can get a basic idea of what they do. As Sonoran said - the dominant genes are in upper case and they show with one copy, the recessive genes are lower case and require two copies in the bird to show.

 

[Quechicks]

WHAT AN EXPLANATION!!!!!! Thank youuuuu!!!!

Couple of things are more clear now....but to know if there is 1 or 2 copy of the recessiv gene how do you do? You use this calculator? Or I guess experience?

So if I understand correctly recessive means that I need 2 copy to show (express) and 2 copies mean the mother give 1 and the father give the other one right?

But dominant???? Do both parents give it? And how do how know which genes are dominant and wich ones are recessives? If you have a simple explanation like the one one above....I will take it ;-)

Isabelle

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

My god Sonoran..thank you..I had read this on the website....what I meant is actually the combinations of all this.Am I clear? Don't think so....sorry...

And what is the difference...genetically speaking between dark brown...chocolate...and brown

Isabelle

Every chicken have two copies of each of these genes (except that girls only have one copy of the sex-linked genes). However, the particular allele (variation) is what determines the unique characteristics of that particular chicken. The indented ones are alleles of the non-indented one--note they all have the same first letter followed by a superscript that names that particular allele.

The extended black allele is the base, and makes a big difference in overall body pattern and how the other genes that provide feather colour and pattern expresss. Try reading Genetics of Chickencolors and Basics

 

[ChickNmamma]

WHAT AN EXPLANATION!!!!!! Thank youuuuu!!!!

Couple of things are more clear now....but to know if there is 1 or 2 copy of the recessiv gene how do you do? You use this calculator? Or I guess experience?

So if I understand correctly recessive means that I need 2 copy to show (express) and 2 copies mean the mother give 1 and the father give the other one right?

But dominant???? Do both parents give it? And how do how know which genes are dominant and wich ones are recessives? If you have a simple explanation like the one one above....I will take it ;-)

Isabelle

MORE GENETICS AHEAD>>>
If it is a recessive gene and you don't have two copies - you won't know except if you know the parents. Otherwise you can get find out by crossing the suspected bird to a bird that you know has two copies (because they do show it) and cross it with the one you suspect has one copy - if you get any that express (two copies) you know the one carries one copy.

Yes, the mother and the father each have to give one copy of a recessive gene for the kid to get two copies. If either parent only has one copy - then it makes it much harder to know if they got a copy or not - because they don't show it. Since all genes are paired up - each modifier has both a not-change gene and a gene. There is a 50% chance that the bird will give the gene if they have only one copy. This is where the punnet squares come into play - and where the calculator can save you a lot of time because it will tell you the percentage of each kid having this combination of genes.

Dominant means it shows if there is one copy - it doesn't mean the parent always gives that gene. Both parents CAN give a dominant gene - but if only one parent gives the gene it still shows. The dominant genes show with one copy and they are Capitalized (i.e. Dark brown). Recessive genes are lowercase (i.e. chocolate). Some dominant genes are incompletely dominant - they show differently depending on if there is one gene or two. Blue follows this - with one Blue gene the bird is Blue, with two genes the bird is Splash.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote: Also, if you use the calculator, for each gene the drop down menus list the alleles top to bottom in order of dominance (since some genes have more than two alleles). Some recessive genes can express slightly or in juvenile plumage, and others do not express at all. Mottling can expresses with only one copy in juvenile plumage, and even slightly in adult plumage. lav does not express at all unless two copies are present.

If two parents are heterozygous for a gene, they express the dominant allele. But 25% of their offspring will not inherit that dominant allele from either parent. Note that percentages are actually probabilities, and in small numbers of hatchlings, the percentages can be quite bit off. The more chicks hatched, the closer to the percentage expected.

 

[ChickNmamma]

Also, if you use the calculator, for each gene the drop down menus list the alleles top to bottom in order of dominance (since some genes have more than two alleles). Some recessive genes can express slightly or in juvenile plumage, and others do not express at all. Mottling can expresses with only one copy in juvenile plumage, and even slightly in adult plumage. lav does not express at all unless two copies are present.

If two parents are heterozygous for a gene, they express the dominant allele. But 25% of their offspring will not inherit that dominant allele from either parent. Note that percentages are actually probabilities, and in small numbers of hatchlings, the percentages can be quite bit off. The more chicks hatched, the closer to the percentage expected.

You are right, I forgot about Dominant White having a whole bunch of different alleles, while the birds can only get two alleles of any gene there is more than just two to choose from in that case... I tend to think of the Extension of Black as different from the other genes - its a Base off of which the bird's color is built.

I think the drop down lists are in order of what is most commonly found in chickens. I wouldn't use the term "in order of dominance" because we speak of dominant genes and the dominant genes are not listed first, and this can cause confusion when translated. There are some recessives listed first, and some dominants listed first. I think it is setup that the most common alleles are listed first doubled, then the doubled least common, then the split? Except for the Extension of black (Base) and the Dominant White. On the Base it shows most common, then most common split to other alleles, then next most common, then their splits, then next.. and so on? I think the first one is the most confusing until you understand that it shows the dominance of one allele over another grouped from most common to least common but not necessarily in order of dominance.

I like that chick down can show the base color (extension of black) and you can see some modifiers at work there. Juvenile plumage can show you some other modifiers (like the mottling and I think barring and lacing?). These are great for further study once one has a good grasp on the basics of how the genetics work. And then there are the "exceptions"... It really is a whole other language!

 

[jnjmanning]

Hey everyone! I am glad I found this thread! Sonoran wow you are busy!!!!!
I am looking for a Silver Partridge Cockerel. I have 2 pullets 6 months old and 3 months old. I want to keep the silver going, but having a hard time finding a mate for these 2 ladies.
Anyone have a cockerel they could part with?

 

[B J Hopkins]

Hey everyone! I am glad I found this thread! Sonoran wow you are busy!!!!!
I am looking for a Silver Partridge Cockerel. I have 2 pullets 6 months old and 3 months old. I want to keep the silver going, but having a hard time finding a mate for these 2 ladies.
Anyone have a cockerel they could part with?

I have a Partridge male I want to rehome. He's PQ though not Show or Breed Quality. Don't know his age, but he has spurs. He's does a good job breeding my 3 females & helps take care of the chicks. Very protective of his ladies & chicks. I just want something different now that I've several of his babies.

Here are a few poses of Chauncy. Some were taken on an overcast day, others on a sunny day.











I'm not sure where Sullivan MO is, but I don't think it's terriable far from Pittsburg MO.

 

[jnjmanning]

I have a Partridge male I want to rehome. He's PQ though not Show or Breed Quality. Don't know his age, but he has spurs. He's does a good job breeding my 3 females & helps take care of the chicks. Very protective of his ladies & chicks. I just want something different now that I've several of his babies.

Here are a few poses of Chauncy. Some were taken on an overcast day, others on a sunny day.











I'm not sure where Sullivan MO is, but I don't think it's terriable far from Pittsburg MO.

He sure has a beautiful color. I am needing at least Breed Quality. Thanks for the offer, I hope you find him a good home

 

[B J Hopkins]

He sure has a beautiful color. I am needing at least Breed Quality. Thanks for the offer, I hope you find him a good home

I figured you wanted at Least Breed Quality, but I did want to make the offer since we're in the same state. Hope you find what you're looking for.