Pellet vs Free Range/Foraging

[Aunt Angus]

Golden Comets and other "production" RSL are pretty famed for reproductive problems. If you got 5.5 years, I'd say that's par for the breed, with a few much earlier, and a few much later. I'd tend to put that event aside.

and your mix sounds excellent - inspired by three sisters method plantings? I'm not thrilled by rye, but there are worse choices, and it does well in places other grains do not.

I can't remember all that's in it off the top of my head, but I'm fairly confident rye was in there. It may be inspired by 3 sisters. I just know my birds love it, it grows crazy fast, and I can buy it in whatever quantity I choose at the nursery up the hill.

I know RSLs are prone to problems. I wouldn't be concerned other than the deaths happened in quick succession after years of no problems. The loss of the Welsummer kills me, though. She had been laying great one week, then all bad the next. It was quick, which I suppose is better than having her suffer for weeks.

I find myself looking at my flock and wondering who is next. Marmalade is laying internally, so she's next. Poppy is probably not far behind as she's getting older and has slowed down considerably. Then maybe Julep... It's fricking depressing.

 

[3KillerBs]

The first was a rescued hen. I don't know her exact age, but she was at least 5. She was a Golden Comet. I res ued her at the same time as an Australorp who had Salpingitis when I brought her home.

The second was a Welsummer I'd gotten as a chick from a feed store. She was about 3.5 years. She was a solo chick (long story - I know better now).

Getting 5 years out of a production sex-link is amazing! They're known for developing reproductive issues and you have no way of knowing what damage was done in her youth before she came into your hands. I'd chalk that up to natural causes.

The Welsummer wasn't *that* old, but chickens aren't long-lived. She may have been weak stock. After all, dark layers have been all the rage for a while so hatcheries are churning them out en masse and are probably not worrying a lot about selecting for long-term health.

 

[Aunt Angus]

Golden Comets and other "production" RSL are pretty famed for reproductive problems. If you got 5.5 years, I'd say that's par for the breed, with a few much earlier, and a few much later. I'd tend to put that event aside.

and your mix sounds excellent - inspired by three sisters method plantings? I'm not thrilled by rye, but there are worse choices, and it does well in places other grains do not.

Just picked up some more seed mix. Here's what's in it:

"Contains intermediate ryegrass, Tetraploid perennial ryegrass, common Flax, Buckwheat, Tetraploid annual ryegrass, Ryegrain, Japanese Millet, Red clover (OMRI listed coating), Strawberry clover (OMRI listed coating), Alfalfa (OMRI listed coating), Ladino clover (OMRI listed coating), Broadleaf Trefoil (OMRI listed coating)"

At $3 a lb (and I get a discount if I buy in bulk), I figure I'll give it a go - in addition to ther pelleted feed, of course. Plus it's from a locally sourced, small family owned business.

I can add other seeds, of course. If you see anything lacking, I'd appreciate your input.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Just picked up some more seed mix. Here's what's in it:

"Contains intermediate ryegrass, Tetraploid perennial ryegrass, common Flax, Buckwheat, Tetraploid annual ryegrass, Ryegrain, Japanese Millet, Red clover (OMRI listed coating), Strawberry clover (OMRI listed coating), Alfalfa (OMRI listed coating), Ladino clover (OMRI listed coating), Broadleaf Trefoil (OMRI listed coating)"

At $3 a lb (and I get a discount if I buy in bulk), I figure I'll give it a go - in addition to ther pelleted feed, of course. Plus it's from a locally sourced, small family owned business.

I can add other seeds, of course. If you see anything lacking, I'd appreciate your input.

You have a number of legumes there - with different but overlapping periods of peak production. They should self propogate to some extent in much of the US - though like my own experience, you will likely find some which fair better than others. I'm sort of ambivalent about the rye - its usually added to green up fast, secure the soil for other greenery, but reseeds poorly and is an ok, but not spectacular, nutrition source for your chickens. Japanese millet is sort of middle of the road as millets go - not as good as white (proso), much better than red (African). and if the buckwheet establishes, you should be well pleased.

My birds largely seem to ignore the trefoil, maybe you will have better luck.
Next year, depending on how your rye is doing, you will want to overseed with other near-grain grasses or "ancient" grains to fill in some and offer additional vertical height, which can then support some of the more traditionally "vining" greens.

 

[Aunt Angus]

You have a number of legumes there - with different but overlapping periods of peak production. They should self propogate to some extent in much of the US - though like my own experience, you will likely find some which fair better than others. I'm sort of ambivalent about the rye - its usually added to green up fast, secure the soil for other greenery, but reseeds poorly and is an ok, but not spectacular, nutrition source for your chickens. Japanese millet is sort of middle of the road as millets go - not as good as white (proso), much better than red (African). and if the buckwheet establishes, you should be well pleased.

My birds largely seem to ignore the trefoil, maybe you will have better luck.
Next year, depending on how your rye is doing, you will want to overseed with other near-grain grasses or "ancient" grains to fill in some and offer additional vertical height, which can then support some of the more traditionally "vining" greens.

Fantastic! I'm takin' notes!

Thank you!

 

[U_Stormcrow]

the good news is, all those legumes are nitrogen fixers, and will improve soil quality with time. They are also (when the birds eat them, anyways) a high protein source, and while the AA levels don't tend to be balanced, the high relative amounts of protein often make them better sources for certain AAs, pound per pound, than better "balanced" protein sources of less total protein.

Here's the Feedipedia page for clovers (follow the links). I have white, yellow, and crimson in my own pasture. Mabe red as well (not a deliberate planting). Look on the "nutritional aspects" tab for white clovers, which discuss chickens particularly. The others, largely, do not - but have similar considerations for rabbits, sheeps, goats, and cattle, so I **ASSUME** that similar findings with red, yellow, crimson, etc clovers and chickens would be discovered as with white clover. Oh, i have "subclover" (subterranian clover) too - which has some useful studies out of Brazil w/ regard free range diets. I didn't plant it, its a native ddeposited on my soils likely by passing birds, and many of the studies are in Spanish, so I've not read them.

I have read this one.

I should mention the clovers took a while to become established - at the start of this year, I could hardly find examples of the yellow and crimson for photography - but with the more seasonal rains, they are croppign up in previously barren places.

 

[Aunt Angus]

the good news is, all those legumes are nitrogen fixers, and will improve soil quality with time. They are also (when the birds eat them, anyways) a high protein source, and while the AA levels don't tend to be balanced, the high relative amounts of protein often make them better sources for certain AAs, pound per pound, than better "balanced" protein sources of less total protein.

Here's the Feedipedia page for clovers (follow the links). I have white, yellow, and crimson in my own pasture. Mabe red as well (not a deliberate planting). Look on the "nutritional aspects" tab for white clovers, which discuss chickens particularly. The others, largely, do not - but have similar considerations for rabbits, sheeps, goats, and cattle, so I **ASSUME** that similar findings with red, yellow, crimson, etc clovers and chickens would be discovered as with white clover. Oh, i have "subclover" (subterranian clover) too - which has some useful studies out of Brazil w/ regard free range diets. I didn't plant it, its a native ddeposited on my soils likely by passing birds, and many of the studies are in Spanish, so I've not read them.

I have read this one.

I should mention the clovers took a while to become established - at the start of this year, I could hardly find examples of the yellow and crimson for photography - but with the more seasonal rains, they are croppign up in previously barren places.

Just wow. This is fantastic. I'll comb through this plethora of info when I have more time. But it's bookmarked!

And, luckily for me, I can read Spanish.

 

[Bananer86]

I'm currently trying to boost my flock's health after a bout of problems.

They currently get All Flock pellets with oyster shell on the side. I rarely give treats (maybe, like, 2x or 3x in the summer to combat heat - that's it). Fresh water daily. Spot clean coop daily, full clean weekly.

So I've been reading a lot about diet. I'm seeing some conflicting info. Of course balanced commercial feed is good, but what about free ranging/foraging? Is that overall detrimental to their health since it isn't balanced commercial feed?

I was thinking about starting a fodder system, but don't want to detract from a balanced diet. I also allow my birds to forage in the pasture daily, and I'm wondering if that's diluting their nutrient intake.

It seems counterintuitive to think that free ranging could be bad for them, but I've read several blogs/articles and a lot of BYC posts suggesting that anything other than pellets (i.e. letting them free range/forage) is bad for them. It's been suggested to me that I should stop letting them consume anything other than pellets, and I'm wondering if that might be better given that these birds are essentially laying machines...

Thoughts?

I agree with the others that mentioned looking into their commercial feed. Foraging/free-ranging is completely natural & unless they’re foraging in a contaminated area it should not be causing problems.

Have you tried fermenting their feed? It helps to boost their gut health.

I feed mine Nutrena NatureWise All Flock (I have turkeys & quail too) & my chickens & turkeys free-range all day. They have access to feed 24/7 & I see them at the feeders throughout the day but for the most part they’re out scratching up their own food. My flock is healthy, happy & lay nice eggs with rich golden yolks. I’ve even watched my mama hen start taking her chicks away from their crumble at 3-4 days old & start teaching them to forage. I think if mama hen feels it’s better than it shouldn’t be hurting them.

 

[Bananer86]

I'm one of the "complete feed" people. I'm ALSO one of the "free range" people. And I will say again, anything other than a commercially complete feed has the *potential* to imbalance your chicken's diet.

@NatJ has the right of it, if "free ranging" means turning birds loose in a perfectly manicured residential backyard of zoysia or bermuda grass, or St. Augustine or whatever, surrounded by equaly well manicured lawns and residential pest control, there is a lot of potential for imbalance. Same if their range is acres of sunflower seed, or a corn field, or even a sea of clover. Its magical thinking to believe a balanced meal comes out of a single (or substantially a single) ingredient.

Monocultures are bad, because the chickens have no choice. If they are hungry, they will eat. Monocultures of particularly high energy/fatty feeds (sunflowers, corn, etc) are like sticking sodas, chips, and candy bars in front of teenagers - ruins their dinner.

Feeding something less than a commercially complete feed and then setting your birds loose to free range in hopes it will fix a deficient diet is likewise magical thinking. Unless you have deliberately planted fields to compensate for known feed deficiencies. Which, honestly, is a level of foresight, planning, and execution well beyond the typical poultry owner.

If you are going to free range, and if you plan on their foraging being a substantial portion of their diet, the first thing you have to do is stop pretending. There are *NO* gurantees. There is, however, intelligent risk management. Keeping their complete feed available at all times is a form of risk management - if the nutrition they need isn't currently in their forage (out of season, buried under snow, simply not present), they have complete feed available. Deliberately planting a polyculture - and I don't mean three varieties of grass - but rather a diverse mix of grasses, grains, near grains, legumes, pulses, and all the rest - at least gives the birds a choice - in hopes that they will select during their foraging a mix of plant life (this also attracts a mix of insect life - yum!), and any imbalance will be kept to a minimum, while the period in which the plot is productively "in season" is extended.

Is it nutritiously optimum? No, probably not. Is it Perfect? Nothing is. Is it a reasonable response to address the known deficiencies of monocultural plantings? (to say nothing of the way those degrade the soil over time) Yes, I think so.

"Better than the Alternatives" is good enough for me.

and if circumstances or resources make sprouting trays, rather than forage plots, the most practical solution? then I encourage you to follow the same thinking - don't offer the same ingredients, day after day, month after month. Variety helps avoid imbalance.

Definitely good points I didn’t think about. My flock has access to an acre of natural wooded area & we planted things they can eat rather than the normal lawn grasses. They also get into the garden & get kitchen scraps on occasion. Since this is my norm I forget that others may not have the same available for their flock.

 

[BigTex19]

I'm currently trying to boost my flock's health after a bout of problems.

They currently get All Flock pellets with oyster shell on the side. I rarely give treats (maybe, like, 2x or 3x in the summer to combat heat - that's it). Fresh water daily. Spot clean coop daily, full clean weekly.

So I've been reading a lot about diet. I'm seeing some conflicting info. Of course balanced commercial feed is good, but what about free ranging/foraging? Is that overall detrimental to their health since it isn't balanced commercial feed?

I was thinking about starting a fodder system, but don't want to detract from a balanced diet. I also allow my birds to forage in the pasture daily, and I'm wondering if that's diluting their nutrient intake.

It seems counterintuitive to think that free ranging could be bad for them, but I've read several blogs/articles and a lot of BYC posts suggesting that anything other than pellets (i.e. letting them free range/forage) is bad for them. It's been suggested to me that I should stop letting them consume anything other than pellets, and I'm wondering if that might be better given that these birds are essentially laying machines...

Thoughts?

I do think its good to feed chickens commercial feeds, but I also do not dismiss the importance of fresh food for a balanced diet for poultry of all kind. I feed my chickens and ducks commercial food from Tractor Supply, but I also feed them vegetables from my garden. They seem to love my tomatoes, and the ducks love my lettuce. I believe that God intended for poultry to forage for their own food and that they will pick the right foods for themselves. I don't have a strong opinion either way, I am just in the middle of both arguments. Best of luck finding whats best for your flock.