Pictures of Possible APA Standard Marans Please...

[JewellFarm]

Quote:
Brenda, where can I get the newsletter? I would love to read it. One of my cockerels has way too much color in the breast. None of them are perfect, but that seems to go along with the wonderful world of chickens, lol. Especially the Maran Breed.

I am working hard toward the standards and any insight along the way is more than welcomed.

 

[littlepeddler]

You can subscribe to it from the MOAC club site or just send me a PM and I'll get you on there. I can relate to your problems. I get numerous emails of the same thing everyday. And not just on this particular problem. I sure hope the newsletter can help you. Give us feedback OK?
Thanks

Brenda

 

[amazondoc]

Quote:
Actually, the proposed APA standard is almost exactly the same as the previous version of the French standard, in regards to the chest color.

The proposed standard reads: "Black or with slightly Copper marks. "

ETA: so, as you can see, it allows for the same sort of variation as the more traditional version of the French standard did.

 

[amazondoc]

Quote:
Krys, the English translation of the French standard also allowed for completely black breasts until very recently -- probably a couple of months ago, although I don't know the exact timing. Perhaps the French version just hasn't been updated yet?

 

[drom]

Since breast markings seem to be the topic, I never have understood why everyone accepts that red on the breast of a BCM might be an indication of Wheaten genes. I'm perfectly willing to accept that the red color on my rooster's breasts might be due to some sort of Wheaten genes, but it puzzles me, since Wheatens are black breasted. Every time I have asked about it there seems to be many who believe this to be true, but I haven't seen an precise explanation in genetic terms of what might cause red to appear on the breast of a BCM if he has Wheaten genes and which specific genes are responsible.
So I have to assume that perhaps people say this because maybe they have experience with red breasted stock throwing yellow chicks (?) so they are linking the two but can't explain the genetics behind it.

The French site variety info has no references to this at all.

 

[Krys109uk]

I'm perfectly willing to accept that the red color on my rooster's breasts might be due to some sort of Wheaten genes, but it puzzles me, since Wheatens are black breasted.

I see what you're saying &, when put like that, it seems illogical that the het birds would have more red. From my own experience it seems to work, but perhaps there's another reason why it works or perhaps it is mere coincidence.

I had wondered whether it could be that having been crossed to a wheaten (eWh), the copper black (ER) might have lost some melanisers which would allow the colour onto the breast as ER usually has colour lacing on the breast. But that just my maths head trying to see patterns, possibly where there are none.

I have some males which are very red in the breast this season. I'll track this & see what happens.​

 

[Chicks_N_Horses]

Quote:
You have gotten lots of emails and PMs from me

Littlepeddler has been a big help with me on educating me on the French Standard Marans....I still have a long ways to go though before I fully 'get' it all.....Hopefully by the time I start breeding, I will have something decent to work with.

No one answered my question though - Is it normal for a hen (4 months old) to have white tips on her feathering on her shanks???? For the French Standard?

 

[Krys109uk]

Krys, the English translation of the French standard also allowed for completely black breasts until very recently -- probably a couple of months ago, although I don't know the exact timing. Perhaps the French version just hasn't been updated yet?

I don't know if this is the case....maybe they just change the standards a lot.

It seems very confusing. I don't see how they can expect anyone to get it right if they have varying standards on different pages.

This is another reference to the same subject talking about changes to the standard. How often do they change the standard for the cock's chest?

http://marans-club.club.fr/ncui.htm#ncui

Nearly half way down you will see. Under DESCRIPTION DE LA MARANS NOIRE-CUIVRE (Desription of the Copper Black Marans).

Rappelons le standard d'origine: (Remember the original Standard):
Le coq doit être : «…noir sauf le camail, la selle, les épaules, et les lancettes cuivrés. La poitrine légèrement émaillée de roux…». The cock must be "black except the hood, the saddle, the shoulders & the lancettes copper. The chest stained with a little red".)

Rappelons le Standard actuel: (Remember the current standards):
Le coq doit être : «…noir avec parure cuivrée, lancettes du camail et des reins largement bordées de rouge cuivré, poitrine noire ou légèrement tâchée de roux…» (The cock must be : "black with copper ornaments, lancettes of the hood & the loins (saddle hackle?) largely bordered by copper red, the chest black or a little stained with red."

From that it would appear that, either, they have changed the standards again recently or this is what they have changed the standards to. They have the same on the English page.

http://marans-club.club.fr/ncuiang.htm#NCUI​

 

[amazondoc]

Quote:
Yes, I noticed that on the English version. I was assuming that somebody forgot to erase the second paragraph when they updated the page, but I could easily be wrong about that.

 

[blackdotte]

The excess red on the breast of a Black-Copper males could have two possible reasons,
1) the bird is a pure ER/ER Birchen but for some reason has lost some melanisation. or
2) the bird is an impure ER/eWh , a Birchen carrying Wheaten. Wheaten is an inhibitor of melanin, thus allowing the greater expression of red in the breast.

You can not tell which is which by just looking at them, the thing to do is a test mating.
Mating bird 1 to a eWh Wheaten,eb Brown or e+ Duckwing hen will not produce any chicks other than an ER phenotype.

Mating bird 2 to a eWh Wheaten,eb Brown or e+ Duckwing hen will
produce non ER phenotype chicks.
David